[Politics] Brexit

[Lever]

Again this was not indicative of brexit intentions but rather dissatisfaction at the two major parties.

... by your analysis.

 

[Two Professors]

We can leave whenever we like.

TM put forward a plan to leave a few months back, but it was scuppered by a group of Leave supporting MPs

Or, of course, you can always put a hard border in NI, but I'm not sure anyone, except for a few swivel-eyed loons, thinks that is a good idea

Still playing that stuck record?Not worked out what a customs seal is yet either?Leo will want a free-transit deal for his exports when the hard border is set up in Eire.

 

[Simster]

Refreshing to hear this.... and suggestions that you were sparing with the truth are simply disingenuous. Actually I think such people as this reasonable conservative candidate are the majority. They just get drowned out by the noisy extremists.

I agree with this, and it's a problem compounded by returning UKIPers who have infiltrated local Conservative offices and are doing most of the shouting.

The fact that the Tories and Labour are both getting slaughtered (and will be slaughtered in the Euro elections too) points to two things: 1) nobody like the way either party is doing things and 2) they should both be working towards a solution that unites the country

My opinion is that the only way #2 is possible is to implement a soft Brexit and to do it quickly. I'd also say that the Tories have been far more guilty of ensuring this hasn't happened because of their intransigence over their self imposed red lines, whereas Labour are paying the price of not having formed a coherent policy over what they stood for until the last few months.

 

[The Clamp]

Again this was not indicative of brexit intentions but rather dissatisfaction at the two major parties.

Stop whining and making excuses, a vote is a vote whatever spin you put on it. You know why people voted now do you? Moan moan ****ing moan.

 

[Lever]

I agree with this, and it's a problem compounded by returning UKIPers who have infiltrated local Conservative offices and are doing most of the shouting.

The fact that the Tories and Labour are both getting slaughtered (and will be slaughtered in the Euro elections too) points to two things: 1) nobody like the way either party is doing things and 2) they should both be working towards a solution that unites the country

My opinion is that the only way #2 is possible is to implement a soft Brexit and to do it quickly. I'd also say that the Tories have been far more guilty of ensuring this hasn't happened because of their intransigence over their self imposed red lines, whereas Labour are paying the price of not having formed a coherent policy over what they stood for until the last few months.

.... but will a 'soft Brexit' satisfy the hard liners? You cannot get any of the Leavers on here to answer that - because they are not unified about the Brexit they want to happen.

 

[Simster]

.... but will a 'soft Brexit' satisfy the hard liners? You cannot get any of the Leavers on here to answer that - because they are not unified about the Brexit they want to happen.

A soft Brexit wouldn't satisfy Brexit hard liners, but then it doesn't satisfy us leavers either. That's what compromise is all about. The government really does need to take a firm hand with it's hard line leavers because they do not have the mandate to dictate Brexit.

 

[Grombleton]

No.It just shows nobody wants an extremist party representing them.Hence Labour losing seats everywhere.

Labour are an extremist party now?

 

[Simster]

Still playing that stuck record?Not worked out what a customs seal is yet either?Leo will want a free-transit deal for his exports when the hard border is set up in Eire.

It doesn't sound like Brexit is ever going to happen until the Irish border is resolved. It would be really really helpful if the Brexit parties could come up with a solution to that, instead of blaming everybody else for not finding one.

If we unilaterally declare no deal, then that is tantamount to ripping up the GFA, and no other solution appears to work except letting NI stay in the EU and putting a border in the Irish sea.

 

[Mellotron]

Again this was not indicative of brexit intentions but rather dissatisfaction at the two major parties.

Why has UKIP's vote collapsed then? Your argument makes no sense. Lib Dems are very vocally REMAIN. Voting for them is a vote to stop Brexit, it's not a protest vote against the main two - that would be a vote for UKIP.

 

[The Clamp]

Why has UKIP's vote collapsed then? Your argument makes no sense. Lib Dems are very vocally REMAIN. Voting for them is a vote to stop Brexit, it's not a protest vote against the main two - that would be a vote for UKIP.

Exactly. He hasn’t got a clue what he’s wanging on about.

 

[golddene]

No.It just shows nobody wants an extremist party representing them.Hence Labour losing seats everywhere.

Absolutely! How many seats did this right wing extremist Tory party lose?

 

[Lever]

Absolutely! How many seats did this right wing extremist Tory party lose?

... and UKIP?

 

[golddene]

.... but will a 'soft Brexit' satisfy the hard liners? You cannot get any of the Leavers on here to answer that - because they are not unified about the Brexit they want to happen.

Had these hard liners been offered the current deal negotiated by TM in 2016 they would have torn your arms off, unfortunately once leave had won the referendum they decided that was a mandate for the hardest leave possible and their total intransigence ever since has led to where we are, this is regardless of how much damage it causes or who gets hurt by it, the self centred leavers will only care if or when they themselves are adversely affected by their Brexit.

 

[Lever]

Had these hard liners been offered the current deal negotiated by TM in 2016 they would have torn your arms off, unfortunately once leave had won the referendum they decided that was a mandate for the hardest leave possible and their total intransigence ever since has led to where we are, this is regardless of how much damage it causes or who gets hurt by it, the self centred leavers will only care if or when they themselves are adversely affected by their Brexit.

Interesting and thoughtful response. Thank you.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Or maybe these inferences and double agendas are lost on thicko Leavers like me. I simply thought we were voting on who would be best placed to collect my bins most efficiently on a Tuesday.

In a conversation spread over an hour or so with a Conservative candidate (an experienced sitting councillor) yesterday he repeatedly bemoaned the fact that the election was about 'Brexit, not bins'.

What you infer can be a matter for you alone of course.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

A soft Brexit wouldn't satisfy Brexit hard liners, but then it doesn't satisfy us leavers either. That's what compromise is all about. The government really does need to take a firm hand with it's hard line leavers because they do not have the mandate to dictate Brexit.

I sympathise with those who call for compromise but is a satisfactory compromise even possible? It seems to me that we've spent three years driving along a country lane and have now reached a junction with a main road. We can turn left or right. Or we can compromise by driving into the brick wall opposite.

 

[A1X]

Again this was not indicative of brexit intentions but rather dissatisfaction at the two major parties.

Sorry but it takes a special kind of unwillingness to stare facts in the face to see a big surge in voting for parties which back Remain and away from parties which back Leave and think this somehow doesn't indicate that the public don't want to Leave anymore. And some of these swings took place in "Brexit-y" areas to boot.

If anything this is likely to be a better indication of public feeling than the European elections, which will see the vote split far more.

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[Lever]

Sorry but it takes a special kind of unwillingness to stare facts in the face to see a big surge in voting for parties which back Remain and away from parties which back Leave and think this somehow doesn't indicate that the public don't want to Leave anymore. And some of these swings took place in "Brexit-y" areas to boot.

If anything this is likely to be a better indication of public feeling than the European elections, which will see the vote split far more.

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Unfortunately you cannot make 'blinded' Leavers see.....

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Barry Gardiner really put his foot in it last night by telling the Tory “You, as a Brexit minister, should understand that we are in there trying to bail you guys out,”

Labour members and MPs are furious with him, for any Labour shadow minister to admit they are bailing out a Tory government.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-mp-jeremy-corbyn-conservatives-a8897751.html

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-48143435/labour-trying-to-bail-out-tories-on-brexit

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Sorry but it takes a special kind of unwillingness to stare facts in the face to see a big surge in voting for parties which back Remain and away from parties which back Leave and think this somehow doesn't indicate that the public don't want to Leave anymore. And some of these swings took place in "Brexit-y" areas to boot.

If anything this is likely to be a better indication of public feeling than the European elections, which will see the vote split far more.

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I am not unwilling to look at a fact. The fact is that there are no facts but rather opinions. I believe many people voted against the big two in an election where it would not make much difference to brexit.