There are certain people we need Doctors and Nurses for example but we don`t train young people in this country for jobs ,teenagers are pretty well non existent in my line of work .Yes its a shame these big companies get away without paying enough tax .You say Tory leavers do you mean MP`s or ordinary people ,there were Labour MP,s who voted to leave as well what would have been their reasons ? unless they thought the EU was undermining workers by dropping wages down .
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[Politics] Brexit
- Thread starter KingstonSeagull
- Start date
There are certain people we need Doctors and Nurses for example but we don`t train young people in this country for jobs ,teenagers are pretty well non existent in my line of work .Yes its a shame these big companies get away without paying enough tax .You say Tory leavers do you mean MP`s or ordinary people ,there were Labour MP,s who voted to leave as well what would have been their reasons ? unless they thought the EU was undermining workers by dropping wages down .
GrizzlingGammon
Well-known member
- Dec 15, 2018
- 1,995
Try reading. If you need help with the big words just ask.
pastafarian
Well-known member
Dont need help from a racist thanks.
Grombleton
Surrounded by <div>s
- Dec 31, 2011
- 7,356
How on EARTH have they been racist, or is this another round of 'spit insult but fail to back it up'?
pastafarian
Well-known member
What? You have to be able to back up calling people racist on here now?…….when did that become a thing?
GrizzlingGammon
Well-known member
- Dec 15, 2018
- 1,995
This is the [MENTION=21401]pastafarian[/MENTION] way. No debate just insults. It's quite sad in a way.
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Grombleton
Surrounded by <div>s
- Dec 31, 2011
- 7,356
If you wanted to be taken seriously, but given reading back in this thread and the various tags dedicated to you, i'm guessing that's not high on the list of priorities...
pastafarian
Well-known member
You should put the word out amongst a selection of remainers then (not all) about being taken seriously then when the racist tag flies about.
Sticks and stones to everything else.
Grombleton
Surrounded by <div>s
- Dec 31, 2011
- 7,356
Not my job as I've not seen it - not to say it hasn't happened, but I haven't seen it.
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
Her Facebook page was hacked overnight on Friday, when she received three death threats by phone. She used Twitter to announce it, and that she was in Cyprus, early on Saturday morning.
I posted it four or five pages ago (40 posts to a page in my NSC settings).
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
He thinks gammon is a racist word. It is in Nicholas Nickleby written by Charles Dickens in 1885 to describe an MP.
pastafarian
Well-known member
So what if you posted whatever you did.
I simply said
"A glance at her facebook page would suggest she isnt too happy about Brexit."
https://www.facebook.com/margaret.georgiadou
That is her facebook page and she doesnt seem very happy about Brexit.
If a word is used as a slur against a group of people of a specific skin colour is that racist?
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Baldseagull
Well-known member
Depends what you mean by 'have a say'.
A better comparison … If we held a referendum about joining the EU and join had won by a small margin would you be happy if the people who decided what join would now look like, mainly came from the side that lost and still believed it was a terrible decision - Eurosceptics? A Eurosceptic PM, Eurosceptic Chancellor, two third Eurosceptic parliament? Would it be ok if these mainly Eurosceptic polticians f'd up the joining deal so badly that no one could agree while millions of Eurosceptic voters who never accepted the result marched to call for another vote? Would you find it acceptable for other eurosceptic politicians and voters to call for a type of EU membership that completely undermined the main reasons for joining …. all in the name of unity? No you wouldn't and no other remainer would either.
On reflection it was anything but. See the UK government spending millions pumping out remain propaganda and as for 'fair' ...
If you mean would I accept a version of joining that wasn't really full joining like not paying the full amount of dues, not taking the currency or being bound by EU monetary policy, have our own regulators for banking, not being part of Schengen area, getting an opt out of the working time directive, choose whether or not to participate in new EU measures in Justice and Home affairs?
I reckon I could live with that.
If the people that were marching were asking for another vote because the join proposition was mostly lies and half truths, and the campaigners broke the law, and the electoral register did not include some of the most affected UK citizens and UK residents, and significant amounts of foreign money and influence had been used, and we were not yet in but would lose forever the option to remain out on the same terms, and the result would have been reversed with just a few hundred thousand of 34 million voters had voted the other way, and it became clear that the only joining version that would pass through Parliament was a worse proposition than the status quo, I think in the interests of democracy, in the interests of retaining existing benefits that would otherwise be lost forever and in the interests of the country I would march with them.
Assume leaving the customs union and the single market was a categorical promise and fundamental part of Leave, it wasn't but it was strongly suggested. Now you are in charge of making that happen, but you are also responsible for maintaining the UK's responsibilities and commitments in regards to treaties with the world and holding the Union of the UK together, responsible for the economy of the UK and the welfare of it's citizens, now add in that your political party is totally split over the issue of remaining and leaving, and you are responsible for holding that Party together too. To get a majority in the house you need the support of 10 MP's from a part of the UK that is particularly affected by whether we are in or out of the customs union and single market, because it has a land border with the EU, they want to leave the EU but very much want to remain in the UK, and have connections to terrorist groups.
Tell me how you, would navigate that lot, retain peace, hold your party together, hold the country together and get out of the customs union?
You are just going to have to face up to it that it was and is a bad proposition, looking worse the more it is examined, and that remainers are not saboteurs, they are most probably the majority today and that there is no good case to be made for proceeding to leave other than the 2016 referendum result which has many problems with legitimacy in itself.
Baldseagull
Well-known member
I meant Tory MP's.
7 of 222 Labour MP's said they would vote to leave before the referendum, the Labour Leave campaign group had conservative party donors a their biggest donors for the referendum campaign. One of the criticisms is that the social aspects of the EU have not been furthered as much as had been suggested and that the EU is a barrier to state run monopolies, which it is in some ways, but it is not impossible. I don't believe Labour Leave ever put out the message that wages were being suppressed by EU migrant workers?
Edit. It isn't just doctors and nurses we need, it is across all levels of skills, we need people in work and paying tax, whatever they are doing to earn pay.
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Baldseagull
Well-known member
You could try and squeeze sexist in there too because it is only men that get called Gammon.
Just like my sex life this Brexit thing could be very anticlimatic come March 29, 2019.
Small point of order - everyone is 'old enough' to pay income tax ..... it's based on your income not your age.
There was net immigration of 273 ,000 last recorded ,EU dropped down to 50,000,and you can`t blame people for wanting to come here to earn more money , but it wont take long to reach a million ,your reasons for bringing more people in are a bit weak ,we give billions away in international aid .Are you not one bit concerned about the future with these amounts ,do you want to build new cities ,what about our countryside ?.
Care to indicate where I've been vile ?
pastafarian
Well-known member
Just remembered you asking about these "missing" postal votes a few days ago after the usual suspect rubbish conspiracy claims, forgot I had read this.
https://fullfact.org/europe/missing-...erendum-votes/
No postal votes from the EU referendum are recorded as “missing”
In brief
Claim
1.1 million Brexit postal ballots are missing or rejected.
Conclusion
No votes from the referendum are recorded as “missing”. Close to one million postal ballots weren’t returned, which can be due to a variety of reasons. An additional 170,000 or so were returned on time but not counted—mostly due to problems with identifying the voter.
This claim, by philosopher and author AC Grayling, about 1.1 million Brexit postal ballots being missing or rejected is similar to a number of other tweets shared in recent days.
(Update: since this piece was published Mr Grayling has said he was asking a question, rather than making a claim.)
All of them seem to make claims originating in data from the Electoral Commission showing that around 975,000 postal votes were not returned during the EU referendum, with roughly 170,000 further ballots rejected.
This seems to be the 1.1 million postal ballots Mr Grayling discusses in his tweet. But while the data is correct, the votes aren’t recorded as “missing”—instead about 975,000 ballots sent out by the Electoral Commission were not returned to it.
There are many reasons why someone may not return a postal vote: for example they may have forgotten to do so, or chosen not to vote.
As for the roughly 170,000 rejected ballots, most were rejected due to problems verifying the voter—either no information on this was provided, or it didn’t match information held by the Returning Officer—and some ballots may have been returned empty.
Separate to this, a further 21,000 ballots were returned after polls closed (and therefore ineligible), and around 23,000 were returned to the Electoral Commission as undelivered.
Overall, 86% of the 8.5 million postal ballots issued during the EU referendum were counted in the final vote. That’s a higher percentage than at the last two UK general elections (the rate was 83% in both).
There is no evidence that postal votes were mishandled
Mr Grayling alludes to postal votes being handled by a firm whose director is a former Conservative MP in favour of Brexit. We’ve seen no evidence that postal votes were manipulated by the companies handling them.
Presumably Mr Grayling is referring to former Conservative MP Peter Lilley, who was at the time of the EU referendum a board member of a company called IDOX. IDOX describes itself as "the largest electoral services provider in the UK", and provides postal vote management software.
The company was invited to tender for contracts with the Electoral Commission during the referendum. The Electoral Commission also said that any Local Counting Officers that had a contract with IDOX “will have used their services to support them with the delivery of elements of the poll, such as the administration of the postal vote process and the production of registers for use in polling stations”.
https://fullfact.org/europe/missing-eu-referendum-votes/