[Politics] Brexit

[LlcoolJ]

LlcoolJ, can I ask why you think any leavers are “gammon EDL types and old people” not trying to pick a fight here, but I voted leave, sorry, and am certainly not a “gammon EDL type” though it could be argued that I am an “old person”, 52 to be exact, but you know what? I got off my backside and voted, clearly the wrong way for most on here, but nonetheless voted democratically. Maybe just maybe if a few more younger voters, who are now crying foul play and yes there are plenty of those, had got off their backsides and voted the remain vote might, deservedly, have come up trumps, fair play and all that.
Sorry for the thorny reply, just find it a bit offensive to keep being made to feel that the way I have voted somehow means that I have any leaning towards a group that I deplore as much as the next person, we have different views, and are all decent people on here, can’t we just try and keep things a bit civil.
No offence mate, bad day

I didn't say that. I said that they seemed to be the only people who marched in favour of Brexit. Just from what I saw.

 

[seagulls4ever]

An honest one.

Ok, sorry, I took your response in a different way.

I don't think it really has much to do with 'intellect', more about checking information is correct before passing it on. We have this amazing resource that is the internet which should allow people to become more informed about the world, but it seems like at times it actually greatly facilitates misinformation, which is an endless source of frustration to me. Sorry if I came off as a bit rude.

 

[Giraffe]

As a remainer there's two things that would make me think twice about voting remain again;
1) How inflexible that EU have been in Brexit negotiations to date, basically take it or leave it hard ball.
2) If we did go back with our tail between our legs saying sorry we'd like to stay after all, how much would they then take the piss on every little negotiation from then on. We'd be screwed rotten for years to come.
Whether a second vote is undemocratic wouldn't enter my mind based on the fact that no-one knew what they were voting for the first time. At least a second vote would at least be more informed rather than being based on at best assumptions and at worst outright lies (from both sides).

Good post. Regardless of how you view the vote and how you did vote, the relationship is broken and we should go our own way now or forever suffer with resentment on both times. It doesn't stop us both revisting this in 20 years time but now is not the time for kissing and making up. All still too raw, it would be a disaster.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

So the brexiteers and their brexit queen gets three votes to ask the same question until she gets thw right answer, but the people can not have two as that is undemocratic!? What utter hypocritical bullshit.

Strange ..... I've lost count the number of remainers who have said referendums shouldn't be allowed as we vote for MPs and Parliament to make these decisions for us. Indeed Gina Miller went to court to prove it and won. Yet now remainers want another referendum ...... now that IS utter hypocritical bullshit.

 

[WATFORD zero]

The vast majority of Brexiteers are opposed to the plan and voted it down and have lost all trust in May you plonker .. if anything May is a Remainer Queen (with Olly Robbins doing her bidding).

This 'vast majority' that you have been appointed spokesman for. Out of interest, any idea what percentage of those who voted Leave you represent ?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

This 'vast majority' that you are spokesman for. Out of interest, any idea what percentage of those who voted Leave you represent ?

...... pssst ..... he's talking about Brexiteer MPs ..... there's a clue in his post if you deem to read it properly !

 

[ManOfSussex]

Check out the BBC Parliament channel, either now, or 2 hours before any other of the 'meaningful' votes this week. There's less than 100 MPs in the house, doing the debate. The rest presumably have more pressing matters, or more likely made their minds up two and a half years ago, same as everybody else.

My MP had much more pressing matters to attend to, such as Tweeting important information like this during the debate on the big vote last night on which she abstained:

[tweet]1105896579624521728[/tweet]

https://twitter.com/AmberRuddHR/status/1105896579624521728

('been in touch with Network Rail urging them to clear the site as soon as possible' - That's more in one Tweet than Chris Grayling has done in nearly 3 years as Transport Secretary)

 

[WATFORD zero]

...... pssst ..... he's talking about Brexiteer MPs ..... there's a clue in his post if you deem to read it properly !

It's just that she is trying to do what you and JC asked for in the referendum, and now you don't seem to want to support her.

You remember - you voted leave, which is what she is trying to do

 

[JC Footy Genius]

This 'vast majority' that you have been appointed spokesman for. Out of interest, any idea what percentage of those who voted Leave you represent ?

I don't claim to be a spokesman for or represent any group or claim to know the future ... that would be silly

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Strange ..... I've lost count the number of remainers who have said referendums shouldn't be allowed as we vote for MPs and Parliament to make these decisions for us. Indeed Gina Miller went to court to prove it and won. Yet now remainers want another referendum ...... now that IS utter hypocritical bullshit.

Well pointed out.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

It's just that she is trying to do what you and JC asked for in the referendum, and now you don't seem to want to support her.

You remember - you voted leave, which is what she is trying to do

Nice avoidance, as usual, of the point being made to you and then highlighting how the point has passed you by.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I don't claim to be a spokesman for or represent any group or claim to know the future ... that would be silly

Well obviously, no-one knows the future

It just seems that some are much better at guessing than others

 

[hans kraay fan club]

As a remainer there's two things that would make me think twice about voting remain again;
1) How inflexible that EU have been in Brexit negotiations to date, basically take it or leave it hard ball.
2) If we did go back with our tail between our legs saying sorry we'd like to stay after all, how much would they then take the piss on every little negotiation from then on. We'd be screwed rotten for years to come.
Whether a second vote is undemocratic wouldn't enter my mind based on the fact that no-one knew what they were voting for the first time. At least a second vote would at least be more informed rather than being based on at best assumptions and at worst outright lies (from both sides).

Good post. Regardless of how you view the vote and how you did vote, the relationship is broken and we should go our own way now or forever suffer with resentment on both times. It doesn't stop us both revisting this in 20 years time but now is not the time for kissing and making up. All still too raw, it would be a disaster.

Not at all.

If we REVOKE it, then then is no 'new' relationship to establish. We simply don't leave, and our membership status is entirely unaffected. Yes, we'll need to rebuild a few diplomatic bridges, and smooth over the fact that we have royally ****ed them about for three years, but ultimately we will be welcomed back with open arms, as a valuable ally.

The fact that the sorry mess has gifted them billions of pounds worth of (formerly) UK businesses ought to salve a few bruised egos, too.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Well obviously, no-one knows the future

It just seems that some are much better at guessing than others

Not difficult when all the guesses cover all the options

 

[WATFORD zero]

Nice avoidance, as usual, of the point being made to you and then highlighting how the point has passed you by.

But I am really struggling to understand why all these people who want to leave the EU (your Brexiteer MPs), given the opportunity to vote to leave the EU (TM's plan), then vote against it.

It's almost as if they all want completely different things

 

[ManOfSussex]

Strange ..... I've lost count the number of remainers who have said referendums shouldn't be allowed as we vote for MPs and Parliament to make these decisions for us. Indeed Gina Miller went to court to prove it and won. Yet now remainers want another referendum ...... now that IS utter hypocritical bullshit.

So did you as a leave voter vote for Peter Kyle to make the decision for you that another referendum is needed?

 

[pb21]

Nothing like violence, or the threat of violence, to ensure the smooth running of a democracy.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Strange ..... I've lost count the number of remainers who have said referendums shouldn't be allowed as we vote for MPs and Parliament to make these decisions for us. Indeed Gina Miller went to court to prove it and won. Yet now remainers want another referendum ...... now that IS utter hypocritical bullshit.

We don't want another referendum though. We want our leaders to swallow their egos, take the political hit, stand up and put an end to the whole sorry farce - face up to the fact that it was a terrible idea, remains a terrible course for the nation, and revoke the entire thing, without fuss.

They can't / won't do that though, as they are fearful of the political backlash, over 'betraying' the public - thus putting it to a second vote may offer the only way forward.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Not difficult when all the guesses cover all the options

1/ Softest of Soft Brexit

2/ No agreement and WTO

3/ Another referendum or GE

Since the day after the referendum always the same three options (of which one was never going to happen). So with only 2 real options it should be easy. I think I may have changed the order and maybe that's confused you.

Keep your eye on the ball, not the cup

 

[Westdene Seagull]

So did you as a leave voter vote for Peter Kyle to make the decision for you that another referendum is needed?

Good grief ..... you really have some obbession about him. I voted for Kyle because out of the people standing he was by far the best mainly based on his previous record. I didn't vote for him for his stance on Brexit - you do realise there are other things to deal with outside Brexit don't you ? It helped that the Tories put up some religious happy clappy nutcase that made the DUP look moderate. I don't tend to vote for religious people because it's rather difficult to trust someone that believes in some made up all powerful being.