[Politics] Brexit

[neilbard]

Blimey! This old folks home certainly feeds its old duffers well...

 

[Stat Brother]

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[JC Footy Genius]

It's not me using words such as 'specifically' or 'entirely'. It's you. Irrespective of any other factors at play, putting at serious risk free trade deals with countries that cover two-thirds of our global trade will see thousands of jobs being lost. If you want to deny that jobs are being lost, fine. And if you want to say that I have claimed no other factors ever exist, that's fine too.

However, if you want to claim (as you do) that there is some kind of similarity between the unpleasant anti-immigrant rhetoric of Leave campaigners wanting to scare the wits out of voters with lies about unstoppable millions-strong floods of far-away foreigners turning up on our shores as of right with a suggestion that an agreement with the French government for British officials to carry out immigration checks in Calais might come to an end - meaning that they would have to be checked in Dover - then all I can do is repeat the comments of another poster to one of your points. "Is that all you've got? Really?" (The 50,000 figure didn't even come from the Remain campaign as far as I can see.)

You ask me whether I believed the claim about an immediate 500,000 extra unemployed. I'm not the best person to ask because my primary reason for wanting to stay in the European Union is not economic. I'm sure the claim was made, but I don't actually recall it - I was (and am) deeply concerned about the economic effect of Brexit but the issue of whether disaster will strike next week or next year didn't seem to be the main issue. I do remember Osborn's claim about a special budget though: it was distasteful in hindsigh but whether it led to more people voting Remain than Leave's suggestion that every family in the country would be £200 a month better off I really don't know. The admission by the director of Vote Leave that the bus claim was the most effective lie of the whole campaign is an interesting one.

As I have stated on numerous occasions the way HMG has prepared for Brexit and handled the negotiations has been inept. Some unnecessary Job losses have probably occurred due to their ineptitude but some were inevitable, see relocating EU institutions and negotiations usually going down to the wire increasing uncertainty. These job loss numbers are unquantifiable (which is why you don't answer my question) but it's fair to say the overall job market has remained remarkably resilient, positive and confounded the 'experts' predicting employment and economic disaster.

There is clearly a link ... using the fear of immigrants turning up on mass in the UK using dubious reasoning. But even if there was more evidence for one than the other you still seek to defend using fear of immigrants as a campaign tactic. Obviously, you never raised a peep when the Remain campaign did it but doubling down trying to justify that now suggests your outrage is rather selective.

You're not the best person to ask what you believe?

Can you provide a direct quote for your repeated claim that the director of Vote Leave said...'the bus claim was the most effective lie' ?

 

[Baker lite]

No, I guess you don't like mine either, so what?

I cherish your vote, people have died so that we may vote, everybody’s vote is precious, even the ones you don’t like.At least We now the contempt you hold for the people on the correct side of history.






On our way.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Amusing to see all the 'positive feedback' [MENTION=35289]Baker lite[/MENTION] is getting. To be fair most of his contributions are very funny and exactly the right counterpoint to numerous pompous posters who take themselves far too seriously.

Indeed: the Oscar Wilde of the thread.

 

[surrey jim]

Breaking news that Labour will back a second referendum

 

[Deleted member 22389]

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[Simster]

Amusing to see all the 'positive feedback' [MENTION=35289]Baker lite[/MENTION] is getting. To be fair most of his contributions are very funny and exactly the right counterpoint to numerous pompous posters who take themselves far too seriously.

To you leavers, I'm sure he's hilarious. . To me, he's a tedious gloating prick. Let's see how he behaves if a second referendum happens, as that is now a distinct possibility. Don't expect me as a remainer to gloat if it happens though, I'd have too much class for that.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Indeed: the Oscar Wilde of the thread.

Jim Davidson would be more than a match for most remainers on this thread.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

To you leavers, I'm sure he's hilarious. . To me, he's a tedious gloating prick. Let's see how he behaves if a second referendum happens, as that is now a distinct possibility. Don't expect me as a remainer to gloat if it happens though, I'd have too much class for that.

This thread descended into tedious point scoring/goading the other side years ago. Bonus point for not gloating if that happens but I am sure numerous remainers will be sticking it to Brexiteers if it happens.

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

Jim Davidson would be more than a match for most remainers on this thread.

But Jim Davidson is an ignorant racist, I think you are getting your remainers and leavers mixed up.

 

[Simster]

This thread descended into tedious point scoring/goading the other side years ago. Bonus point for not gloating if that happens but I am sure numerous remainers will be sticking it to Brexiteers if it happens.

Well I won't be. It's sad that it has come to this. A sad day for democracy, a sad state of affairs that the powers that be have made a massive incompetent pigs ear of Brexit. As a pro leaver, you'd do well to remember what prize cnts the Tories have been next time there is a GE, rather than blaming all of us remainers. It is impossible to overstate how incompetent they've been.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Well I won't be. It's sad that it has come to this. A sad day for democracy, a sad state of affairs that the powers that be have made a massive incompetent pigs ear of Brexit. As a pro leaver, you'd do well to remember what prize cnts the Tories have been next time there is a GE, rather than blaming all of us remainers. It is impossible to overstate how incompetent they've been.

Labour are talking up a second referendum (after all but ruling it out) because they are in severe danger of imploding/ losing many more MP's to TIG. The most likely outcome is still May's deal plus a tweak to the backstop so I wouldn't get too gung ho about another referendum just yet.

 

[Simster]

Labour are talking up a second referendum (after all but ruling it out) because they are in severe danger of imploding/ losing many more MP's to TIG. The most likely outcome is still May's deal plus a tweak to the backstop so I wouldn't get too gung ho about another referendum just yet.

I'm not gung ho about anything - just pointing out what a smug cock Bakerlite is. As I say, as much as I'd like to remain, I'm sad that it has come to this. For the sake of democracy, an orderly Brexit with a sensible deal would be best IMO.

 

[Peter Ward]

I laughed at this snippet from Parris about May in the Times last week:

"Time and again I’ve protested that she may not be the answer but she didn’t create this mess: she’s just an unimaginative, unremarkable, perhaps wooden but dogged politician, overly cautious and rather shy. Time and again my informants — MPs, former MPs, civil servants, special advisers — tell me, eyes flashing, that I’ve got it wrong and the public have it wrong, and she’s so much worse than that. She’s not normal. She’s extraordinary. Extraordinarily uncommunicative; extraordinarily rude in the way she blanks people, ideas and arguments. To my surprise there is no difference between the pictures of her that Remainers and Brexiteers paint.
Theresa May, they tell me (in a couple of cases actually shouting) is the Death Star of modern British politics. She’s the theory of anti-matter, made flesh. She’s a political black hole because nothing, not even light, can escape. Ideas, beliefs, suggestions, objections, inquiries, proposals, projects, loyalties, affections, trust, whole careers, real men and women, are sucked into the awful void that is Downing Street — and nothing ever comes out: no answers, only a blank so blank that it screams. Reputations (they lament) are staked on her, and lost. Warnings are delivered to her, and ignored. Plans are run by her, unacknowledged. Messages are sent to her, unanswered. She has become the unperson of Downing Street: the living embodiment of the closed door."

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I'm not gung ho about anything - just pointing out what a smug cock Bakerlite is. As I say, as much as I'd like to remain, I'm sad that it has come to this. For the sake of democracy, an orderly Brexit with a sensible deal would be best IMO.

Agree with your last sentence but we might disagree on what a 'sensible' deal would look like.

 

[Simster]

Agree with your last sentence but we might disagree on what a 'sensible' deal would look like.

At this point, I think a sensible deal is one that respects the GFA - and that means maintaining the customs union (if not the single market) as a bare minimum.

 

[WATFORD zero]

This thread descended into tedious point scoring/goading the other side years ago. Bonus point for not gloating if that happens but I am sure numerous remainers will be sticking it to Brexiteers if it happens.

But you've always managed to rise above it with your posts praising Baker lite's comic genius and Jim Davidson's well thought through mature, considered views

 

[vegster]

I laughed at this snippet from Parris about May in the Times last week:

"Time and again I’ve protested that she may not be the answer but she didn’t create this mess: she’s just an unimaginative, unremarkable, perhaps wooden but dogged politician, overly cautious and rather shy. Time and again my informants — MPs, former MPs, civil servants, special advisers — tell me, eyes flashing, that I’ve got it wrong and the public have it wrong, and she’s so much worse than that. She’s not normal. She’s extraordinary. Extraordinarily uncommunicative; extraordinarily rude in the way she blanks people, ideas and arguments. To my surprise there is no difference between the pictures of her that Remainers and Brexiteers paint.
Theresa May, they tell me (in a couple of cases actually shouting) is the Death Star of modern British politics. She’s the theory of anti-matter, made flesh. She’s a political black hole because nothing, not even light, can escape. Ideas, beliefs, suggestions, objections, inquiries, proposals, projects, loyalties, affections, trust, whole careers, real men and women, are sucked into the awful void that is Downing Street — and nothing ever comes out: no answers, only a blank so blank that it screams. Reputations (they lament) are staked on her, and lost. Warnings are delivered to her, and ignored. Plans are run by her, unacknowledged. Messages are sent to her, unanswered. She has become the unperson of Downing Street: the living embodiment of the closed door."

Pretty much sums her up, she knew in October her " Deal " would not pass parliament but she just kept delaying and delaying in the hope that something changed, as Einstien allegedly said “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results”...…. her General Election campaign was not only bloody awful, at times it was excruciating when she was asked a question or tried to appear normal around the general public. She is clueless and without a heart or emotion, and will drag us in to an economic abyss with no remorse.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Agree with your last sentence but we might disagree on what a 'sensible' deal would look like.

Well if it's not what Simster outlines above, what would you do about ireland/NI?

(I'm not expecting a straight answer as I'm sure the question is far to 'pompous and serious' )