[Politics] Brexit

[Deleted member 22389]

Another good week for manufacturing

[tweet]1093728165766287360[/tweet]

 

[cunning fergus]

Do you not look at the rabid right wing benches, demanding the same Brexit as you, and think you might have got this wrong? Already the legislation for replacing the CAP really isn't that much different, better or progressive. And you think the Brexiteers in government are looking at this so they can implement more progressive taxation, close avoidance loop holes and tighter financial regulation?

For your ultimate aim of a fairer socialist ideology post Brexit, Labour will have to be elected consecutively for some time. The risk you face, is that you also allow any right wing governments to run riot.

I'm not sure we do have a better chance of changing it out than in, I think we have a better chance of making it worse in all honesty.

I am old enough to remember the Labour Party’s ideological opposition to the EEC, and that position (for me) has not changed, in fact it has got worse. The undeniable facts are that for swathes of this country the poor have been shat on by the U.K. political classes for years. This has happened while we were in the EU snd facilitated by the EU.

Note I hold the U.K. political class accountable first and foremost, they with their European brethren have formed an EU in their own image. The EU is their offspring, and it’s why it’s controlled by global capitalism, to serve the interests of global capitalists.

CAP is a wonderful example of how the rich get free money and the poor pay higher food prices, it’s like an agricultural form of austerity served up as being protectionism. What a jape.

You offer a false construct that remaining in the EU will protect us from right wing Toryism in the U.K. and yet it hasn’t done anything of the sort, if it was working the way you present it then the poor would have backed remain.

So, out means change if the electorate chose, remain is more of the same.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Another good week for manufacturing

[tweet]1093728165766287360[/tweet]

Excellent. Unfortunately there is a maximum of 8-9 more 'good weeks' left for all of us if we exit with the catastrophic *no deal* we are hurtling towards.

 

[Baker lite]

Another good week for manufacturing

[tweet]1093728165766287360[/tweet]

You pack all this nonsense in....
You swivel eyed, xenophobic little Britisher.....
How dare you..HOW DARE YOU.



On our way.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[ManOfSussex]

I am old enough to remember the Labour Party’s ideological opposition to the EEC, and that position (for me) has not changed, in fact it has got worse. The undeniable facts are that for swathes of this country the poor have been shat on by the U.K. political classes for years. This has happened while we were in the EU snd facilitated by the EU.

Note I hold the U.K. political class accountable first and foremost, they with their European brethren have formed an EU in their own image. The EU is their offspring, and it’s why it’s controlled by global capitalism, to serve the interests of global capitalists.

CAP is a wonderful example of how the rich get free money and the poor pay higher food prices, it’s like an agricultural form of austerity served up as being protectionism. What a jape.

You offer a false construct that remaining in the EU will protect us from right wing Toryism in the U.K. and yet it hasn’t done anything of the sort, if it was working the way you present it then the poor would have backed remain.

So, out means change if the electorate chose, remain is more of the same.

I'm pleased you and the poor voted for the post Brexit 'Singaporean model' dream of the right of Tory party. For you and your fellow Brexiteers like Rees-Mogg, Paterson and Redwood, Thaterchism didn't go far enough back in the 1980's. They're now going to finish off what she didn't quite manage - low tax, small state, low wages, low regulations, the city of London transformed into a Singapore/Cayman Islands-on-Thames hybrid and best of all - cheaper foreign labour - Singapore's work force is 30% immigrant - when you're surrounded by developing countries (many of which are Islamic but obviously no poor leave voters have a problem with that) why not, eh? We're going to have some of that soon. We've got plenty of developing countries near us too.

Who wants Bulgarians, Romanians and Polish when you can have Moroccans, Libyans and Syrians far cheaper?

 

[Simster]

I am old enough to remember the Labour Party’s ideological opposition to the EEC, and that position (for me) has not changed, in fact it has got worse. The undeniable facts are that for swathes of this country the poor have been shat on by the U.K. political classes for years. This has happened while we were in the EU snd facilitated by the EU.

Note I hold the U.K. political class accountable first and foremost, they with their European brethren have formed an EU in their own image. The EU is their offspring, and it’s why it’s controlled by global capitalism, to serve the interests of global capitalists.

CAP is a wonderful example of how the rich get free money and the poor pay higher food prices, it’s like an agricultural form of austerity served up as being protectionism. What a jape.

Not withstanding for your wonderfully ironic position on CAP, I have a degree of sympathy for this point of view. If there is anything to come out of this Brexit mess, it is the extent to which this country has been badly let down over the issue of Europe. In my opinion, the political class have facilitated the bullshit and lies stemming from a right wing press, and have not countered it by using the tools at their disposal.

I shall explain: EU law allows member nations to restrict labour from new member states for up to seven years. Our governments have never invoked this - we were one of just 3 states not to. Why the hell were our semi/non skilled workers not protected from this cheap external labour force? We were entitled to.
And to continue the point, EU freedom of movement guarantees the freedom of movement of labour, not people. Throughout the EU, if you haven't got a job the member country can throw you out after 3 months. You try staying in Belgium for 3 months and a single day if you have no job and fancy helping yourself to state benefits. You won't be able to, they'll throw you out. The reason they can is the Belgian (and French, Italian etc) marriage to ID cards. It certainly restricts liberties, and it's alien to us. But whenever it was raised in this country, it was shouted down in the right-wing press as another meddlesome EU dictat, yet this is a very good reason to have ID cards.

You offer a false construct that remaining in the EU will protect us from right wing Toryism in the U.K. and yet it hasn’t done anything of the sort, if it was working the way you present it then the poor would have backed remain.

So, out means change if the electorate chose, remain is more of the same.

Based on my previous explanation, I don't think that's a fair conclusion to draw. You're either in for a penny, in for a pound - or you're not. Our governments have not used the apparatus available and are forever scared of the right wing media in the country. The result is that we're now leaving based on a deceitful campaign and we are all going to be a lot poorer for it.

 

[mothy]

Genius. Next Brexit Secretary.

Thanks for explaining. It sounds like you know what you're talking about

 

[Simster]

Another good week for manufacturing

[tweet]1093728165766287360[/tweet]

Do you think those 5 stories collectively are as good news as the Nissan news was bad?

I would expect a non-linear decline in overall investment once we leave the EU. There will be good news, there will be bad - but the overall trend will be bad. That's why you won't find me posting good news investment or bad news lack of investment - we'll soon see how it affects our bottom line as our GDP falls further and further behind France and Germany. Give it 10 years and even a basket case country like Italy will be doing better than us unfortunately.

 

[mothy]

I'd have thought a simple statement confirming that we'll uphold and comply with the Good Friday Agreement forever ( or until Ireland is re-united ) would suffice.

Agreed. & then it's up to the eu to justify there position

 

[Bold Seagull]

I am old enough to remember the Labour Party’s ideological opposition to the EEC, and that position (for me) has not changed, in fact it has got worse. The undeniable facts are that for swathes of this country the poor have been shat on by the U.K. political classes for years. This has happened while we were in the EU snd facilitated by the EU.

Note I hold the U.K. political class accountable first and foremost, they with their European brethren have formed an EU in their own image. The EU is their offspring, and it’s why it’s controlled by global capitalism, to serve the interests of global capitalists.

CAP is a wonderful example of how the rich get free money and the poor pay higher food prices, it’s like an agricultural form of austerity served up as being protectionism. What a jape.

You offer a false construct that remaining in the EU will protect us from right wing Toryism in the U.K. and yet it hasn’t done anything of the sort, if it was working the way you present it then the poor would have backed remain.

So, out means change if the electorate chose, remain is more of the same.

In or out the electorate has been, and will continue to be able to elect a socialist government in this country that could implement real change, in or out. There is nothing the EU have done to influence or prevent that happening.

If the referendum and leave voters as you say are great swathes of the disenfranchised, where were they in 1992 with the country on its knees after 13 years of Tory rule, Maastricht signed, where was this great rejection of the political elite? This gave us New Labour and Tory-lite, you cannot blame that on the EU as much as I cannot blame Murray being offside so often on what I had for breakfast.

The EU hasn't made us elect centrist and right wing governments for the last 40 years, it hasn't held a gun to the head of our electorate.

It's convenient for you to use the EU as the excuse for why we haven't had political change. Instead of looking at our own landscape, it is a politicial union with the EU that has prevented change, and only leaving it can facilitate change. It is fantasy. We could change in or out.

What leaving the EU does for some, is that if we cannot elect a socialist government in this country, may as well give a thumb in the eye to an establishment we hold in contempt. That will show them. Now we can have real change. Only we always have had that ability.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Not withstanding for your wonderfully ironic position on CAP, I have a degree of sympathy for this point of view. If there is anything to come out of this Brexit mess, it is the extent to which this country has been badly let down over the issue of Europe. In my opinion, the political class have facilitated the bullshit and lies stemming from a right wing press, and have not countered it by using the tools at their disposal.

I shall explain: EU law allows member nations to restrict labour from new member states for up to seven years. Our governments have never invoked this - we were one of just 3 states not to. Why the hell were our semi/non skilled workers not protected from this cheap external labour force? We were entitled to.
And to continue the point, EU freedom of movement guarantees the freedom of movement of labour, not people. Throughout the EU, if you haven't got a job the member country can throw you out after 3 months. You try staying in Belgium for 3 months and a single day if you have no job and fancy helping yourself to state benefits. You won't be able to, they'll throw you out. The reason they can is the Belgian (and French, Italian etc) marriage to ID cards. It certainly restricts liberties, and it's alien to us. But whenever it was raised in this country, it was shouted down in the right-wing press as another meddlesome EU dictat, yet this is a very good reason to have ID cards.

Based on my previous explanation, I don't think that's a fair conclusion to draw. You're either in for a penny, in for a pound - or you're not. Our governments have not used the apparatus available and are forever scared of the right wing media in the country. The result is that we're now leaving based on a deceitful campaign and we are all going to be a lot poorer for it.

As said above, I think it boils down to the reality of not being able to elect a socialist country in this country, so at least we're able to give a thumb in the eye to another part of the establishment. Really doesn't matter what that means. Doesn't matter we could end up with a policy worse than the CAP, regressive taxation, perks for the rich and multi-national companies, gulf between rich and poor growing, all the reasons the hard right want the same Brexit. Just that the likes of Kate Hoey and others can sit back and say we defeated the establishment.

The establishment is dead. Long live the establishment.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

In or out the electorate has been, and will continue to be able to elect a socialist government in this country that could implement real change, in or out. There is nothing the EU have done to influence or prevent that happening.

If the referendum and leave voters as you say are great swathes of the disenfranchised, where were they in 1992 with the country on its knees after 13 years of Tory rule, Maastricht signed, where was this great rejection of the political elite? This gave us New Labour and Tory-lite, you cannot blame that on the EU as much as I cannot blame Murray being offside so often on what I had for breakfast.

The EU hasn't made us elect centrist and right wing governments for the last 40 years, it hasn't held a gun to the head of our electorate.

It's convenient for you to use the EU as the excuse for why we haven't had political change. Instead of looking at our own landscape, it is a politicial union with the EU that has prevented change, and only leaving it can facilitate change. It is fantasy. We could change in or out.

What leaving the EU does for some, is that if we cannot elect a socialist government in this country, may as well give a thumb in the eye to an establishment we hold in contempt. That will show them. Now we can have real change. Only we always have had that ability.

The EU had nothing to do with Labour losing Scotland, something they will never regain now the SNP genie is out of the bag.

 

[cunning fergus]

I'm pleased you and the poor voted for the post Brexit 'Singaporean model' dream of the right of Tory party. For you and your fellow Brexiteers like Rees-Mogg, Paterson and Redwood, Thaterchism didn't go far enough back in the 1980's. They're now going to finish off what she didn't quite manage - low tax, small state, low wages, low regulations, the city of London transformed into a Singapore/Cayman Islands-on-Thames hybrid and best of all - cheaper foreign labour - Singapore's work force is 30% immigrant - when you're surrounded by developing countries (many of which are Islamic but obviously no poor leave voters have a problem with that) why not, eh? We've going to have some of that soon. We've got plenty of developing countries near us too.

Who wants Bulgarians, Romanians and Polish when you can have Moroccans, Libyans and Syrians far cheaper?

This is interesting, ordinarily you would take any arguments for leave, input them into the standard operating Brexit discussion algorithm (as created by Remain) and the result is always that the motive to leave is generated by racism. Hence you schriek ”raaysist” at the top of your voice ad-Infinitum.

In this response you have put the algorithm differentiation into reverse mode to indicate that racist leaver voters should consider the far graver implications of more dark skinned Muslim immigrants arriving post Brexit compared to the arrivals of their lighter skinned Christian immigrant peers from Eastern Europe.

This is just a variation of the Tory election leaflet in Brum back in the 70s which went along the lines of “if you want a n-word for your neighbour vote Labour” isn’t it?

Beautiful stuff......keep Britain white, vote EU......you racist Tory shithouses never change your spots do you?

 

[Berty23]

Another good week for manufacturing

[tweet]1093728165766287360[/tweet]

Wow. I suggest you do some sense checking before posting propoaganda.

Cleveland bridge investment is by our own government through UKEF - literally public money.

The Texas jobs are a rescue plan with 15 million from local council

The derby aerospace campus is funded by derby council.

Dairy crest was announced on May last year.

The 100million from Holland is over many years. Announced last year.

If these are the best examples of manufacturing investment this week then we are doomed. I look forward to next week’s instalment if the government spend 50 million on new Schools.

 

[Blue3]

A large number of leave voters did so as an expression of disaffection in the way UK Governments had not represented there wants and needs in the anticipation that the vote would be to rema within the EU but in the hope that’s close vote my gut send a general message of frustration with the elite, others voted leave over fears of immigration and absence of loosing identity, for yet others it related to housing jobs all sorts of things while for others it was a deep routed desire to leave the EU but at no point was how we were to leave ever discussed Mrs May has made numerous mistakes in getting us to where are from calling an election to obtain a majority to push through a Brexit to not listening to why people voted the way they did to selecting the poorest negotiating team imaginable with absolutely no idea where these negotiations were going to take them

 

[ManOfSussex]

This is interesting, ordinarily you would take any arguments for leave, input them into the standard operating Brexit discussion algorithm (as created by Remain) and the result is always that the motive to leave is generated by racism. Hence you schriek ”raaysist” at the top of your voice ad-Infinitum.

In this response you have put the algorithm differentiation into reverse mode to indicate that racist leaver voters should consider the far graver implications of more dark skinned Muslim immigrants arriving post Brexit compared to the arrivals of their lighter skinned Christian immigrant peers from Eastern Europe.

This is just a variation of the Tory election leaflet in Brum back in the 70s which went along the lines of “if you want a n-word for your neighbour vote Labour” isn’t it?

Beautiful stuff......keep Britain white, vote EU......you racist Tory shithouses never change your spots do you?

Not at all Fergie - Your fellow, like minded, leave voting advocate Nigel Farage did it back in 2016 when 'subtly' highlighting it to play on the subliminal concerns some people have in regards to Islam and why we should leave The EU to stop 'more dark skinned Muslim immigrants' coming here as a result.



I fully accept to a wealthy, Waitrose at Burgess Hill shopping, leave voter such as yourself and other home county residing leave voters like you, such as people from Surrey, this perhaps wasn't aimed directly at you specifically.

 

[Simster]

This is interesting, ordinarily you would take any arguments for leave, input them into the standard operating Brexit discussion algorithm (as created by Remain) and the result is always that the motive to leave is generated by racism. Hence you schriek ”raaysist” at the top of your voice ad-Infinitum.

In this response you have put the algorithm differentiation into reverse mode to indicate that racist leaver voters should consider the far graver implications of more dark skinned Muslim immigrants arriving post Brexit compared to the arrivals of their lighter skinned Christian immigrant peers from Eastern Europe.

This is just a variation of the Tory election leaflet in Brum back in the 70s which went along the lines of “if you want a n-word for your neighbour vote Labour” isn’t it?

Beautiful stuff......keep Britain white, vote EU......you racist Tory shithouses never change your spots do you?

Absolutely baffling.

 

[Triggaaar]

Not really no Trig. Not legally possible.

Article 50 makes reference to how a country can rejoin.

I disagree. Not with what Article 50 says, but with what's possible legally when all sides agree. Any law you could look up would be one created by the EU, and one that could be overridden by the EU, if they so chose.

 

[cunning fergus]

A large number of leave voters did so as an expression of disaffection in the way UK Governments had not represented there wants and needs in the anticipation that the vote would be to rema within the EU but in the hope that’s close vote my gut send a general message of frustration with the elite, others voted leave over fears of immigration and absence of loosing identity, for yet others it related to housing jobs all sorts of things while for others it was a deep routed desire to leave the EU but at no point was how we were to leave ever discussed Mrs May has made numerous mistakes in getting us to where are from calling an election to obtain a majority to push through a Brexit to not listening to why people voted the way they did to selecting the poorest negotiating team imaginable with absolutely no idea where these negotiations were going to take them

I agree, and this is not the fault of the voters. They have had generations of politicians (of different flavours and colours) in the UK espouse the benefits of the EU and reflect on the minor nature of membership when the reality has been anything but.

The UK is not alone, politician disenfranchisement with mainstream politicians is alive and well and the fault of those mainstream politicians and wider establishment in the US, France, Italy and Brazil (to highlight some examples).

It is entirely logical that (in the UK) many wanted to change the status quo, the conduct of the same groups of politicians and establishment types to do their best to undermine the result of the vote wil not help to correct this direction of travel.

If this change is painful, they should reflect on what more change could bring from a even more disenfranchised electorate.

 

[CHAPPERS]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...crisis-command-centre-starts-hiring-civilians

Candidates are being offered between £300 and £400 a day and must be prepared to start by the end of this month.

Anyone here got a notice period of less than a month?

Applicants are being recruited on a six-month contract with an option for three-month extensions up to two years.

And SUCH job security too.

I'm sure only the best and brightest individuals will take this fantastic opportunity.