[Politics] Brexit

[wellquickwoody]

Sorry, no I’m still none the wiser.

So why use the term if you do not know its meaning?

 

[ManOfSussex]

And that's fair enough - I will just NEVER vote for a party that put an Albion fan behind bars and that tried to get someone charged because of a 'wanted' poster. They were lying cheating scum then, I've seen nothing to suggest they have changed ..... just ask the students about the promises around uni fees.

The student fees pledge thing is overblown - their manifesto pledges in 2010 ceased to exist once they formed a coalition with the Conservative and Unionist party. Their problem was they switched from being the 'none of the above' party to just being the Conservative and Unionist Party alongside David and Gideon and brought austerity, Duncan-Smithism and crimes against benefit claimants - that's their error. People voted Lib Dem in 2010, who then voted UKIP or SNP in 2015, who voted Labour in 2017 and so many of the Lib Dems don't know why and that's their problem. So ironic too that in the sad recent passing of Paddy Ashdown that he was ultimately the man who made them into a political force, then advised his protege Nick Clegg to go into the coalition, thus sealing their doom.

As I say, I take your principled point entirely on the Lib Dems though, but I'm a little surprised at your stance elsewhere. I'm obviously diametrically opposed to you on Brexit therefore for me from now on if:

a. It voted leave.
b. It's a candidate for The Conservative and Unionist Party.
c. It's called Amber Rudd.

I won't be voting for it. 2017 was the first time I voted Labour in anything since 1997 and David Lepper in Brighton Pavilion as an 18 year old I hasten to add. Yet, good constituency MP or not, you're happy to vote for the neo-liberal, Blairite, remain backing, 2nd referendum wanting, extremist aka Dr Peter Kyle, who voted against the Withdrawal Agreement because he wants to stop Brexit.

Remain supporter or not, my MP Amber Rudd, who you know I hold in very regard and is assuring any concerned constituents that no deal will not happen, consulted and listened sympathetically without prejudice to the views of the 55% of her constituents who who are less informed, more ignorant and bigoted than she is who supported Brexit and voted for the Withdrawal Agreement accordingly so that the Brexit, that all Brexit voters voted for, could happen.

If I was a Brexit voter I wouldn't, to borrow a worn out phrase from footy genius, be voting for an 'undemocratic loon' like Dr Peter Kyle.

 

[wellquickwoody]

I bet there will be lots of scaremongering today about getting settled status. If you go on the government website it clearly explains what you have to do, however what people will do instead is be drawn to the rubbish posted online by people who can't except the result in the first place. I'm going to have to do this for my mum at some point.

From a remainer, you are quite correct. Driving home from work tonight Radio 4 was non stop about company's paying the fee for settled status for their employees. It is a left wing agenda on that front without a doubt, but as a right winger I see no harm in charging an admin fee.

 

[wellquickwoody]

Why, are you some expert in psychoanalysis as well as world finance, politics and corporate dining?

Nearly German, and holier than thou.

 

[WATFORD zero]

For some time it has been pretty clear that if she and the EU agree to lose the backstop or put a date on when it ends then her withdrawal agreement will go through.

My view is the EU and us will take this to wire. Could be the last week or the last hour before they crumble but crumble they will and we should hold form until then.

Talk of ruling out no deal or extending the deadline is absolute nonsense made by people who don't understand how negotiation works. The only way you can get a good deal is to take it to wire and we should hold firm on this.

Well I hope your experience of Government international negotiations is better than your experience of technological solutions (or maybe you should consult your company's stationary purchaser first)

Assuming yes, I favour the smart border. They already use it for Sweden/Norway for a much longer border. The guy behind the technology here says it is very achievable for Ireland.

Next?

 

[Giraffe]

Genuine question, what are we holding firm with? May has already proposed a deal that was resoundly voted down. What is she going to do now? Say “That wasn’t the real deal, I’ve got a much better one I’ve not told anyone about that I’m taking to the wire “. I genuinely cannot fathom what she actually has to hold firm with?

Hold firm with those wanting to extend the deadline and rule out no deal. All the time no deal is an option and time is running out there is more chance of the EU compromising on the backstop which is all she needs to make this a good deal and get it through.

 

[fanseagull]

17 million people will have been told their views don't count, I think you may be in for a shock. I personally have never before detested the government more.

Violent disorder?
All views count... it's just that the practical application of those views is not agreed and significant numbers of people are deeply unhappy with the choices on offer!
Your solution?

 

[hans kraay fan club]

All the time no deal is an option and time is running out there is more chance of the EU compromising on the backstop which is all she needs to make this a good deal and get it through.

Humour me here.

There is no hard border between the ROI and NI, as per the terms of the GFA. That is set on stone, and its quite important.

Moving forward, there either IS a border, or there is NOT a border.

What 'compromise' are you hoping for on this from the EU?

 

[The Clamp]

So why use the term if you do not know its meaning?

I used it in the sense of gammon faced Brexiteers. I didn’t know there was another meaning for it.

I think you know that though.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Hold firm with those wanting to extend the deadline and rule out no deal. All the time no deal is an option and time is running out there is more chance of the EU compromising on the backstop which is all she needs to make this a good deal and get it through.

I don't know if you've read many Home Affairs Select Committee reports on Brexit, or Exiting the European Union Select Committee reports. I'm assuming you haven't, because if you had you'd know from them, among other things, what folly this no deal threat is.

It was quite telling last week when the respective chairs of both those committees wasted their time meeting Mrs May. Hillary Benn afterwards said that no deal obviously wasn't an option in such a casual, matter of fact manner in regards to what happens next.

The other thing in regards to altering the backstop that you suggest is the Fine Gael coalition government would fall in Dublin if it was, hence it won't happen. We ultimately signed up to it and agreed to it, now some are wanting to renege on it, as well as rip up The Good Friday Agreement. Nothing I can do obviously, but I do find it sad to the point of thoroughly depressing that people are happy for this country to move into pariah status from the current level of just embarrassment.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Not trying to score any points mate, but how does she feel about it?

Honestly, my mum thinks it's silly having to apply for settled status after paying in to the system for 50+ years, but she also understands the reasons why and also accepts this country voted to Leave.

 

[Baldseagull]

Honestly, my mum thinks it's silly having to apply for settled status after paying in to the system for 50+ years, but she also understands the reasons why and also accepts this country voted to Leave.

Thanks for replying, it is silly she has to apply, and not fair that she has to pay. I hope it goes smoothly for her.

 

[Baldseagull]

17 million people will have been told their views don't count, I think you may be in for a shock. I personally have never before detested the government more.

They all get the chance to vote again, except the dead ones, and they won't mind. What you are suggesting is that people will riot over a democratic result if it doesn't go their way, but surely if we just say to them, you lost, get over it, they will be fine and get behind remaining to make it a success. Remaining in the EU will be great if you just believe in it.

 

[wellquickwoody]

I used it in the sense of gammon faced Brexiteers. I didn’t know there was another meaning for it.

I think you know that though.

Don't try and pass it over, I was accusing you of being exactly what you claim others are like, and you then claimed ignorance. You sir, are a hypocrite.

 

[Baldseagull]

For some time it has been pretty clear that if she and the EU agree to lose the backstop or put a date on when it ends then her withdrawal agreement will go through.

My view is the EU and us will take this to wire. Could be the last week or the last hour before they crumble but crumble they will and we should hold form until then.

Talk of ruling out no deal or extending the deadline is absolute nonsense made by people who don't understand how negotiation works. The only way you can get a good deal is to take it to wire and we should hold firm on this.

What is it that you are hoping they will concede exactly?

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

They all get the chance to vote again, except the dead ones, and they won't mind. What you are suggesting is that people will riot over a democratic result if it doesn't go their way, but surely if we just say to them, you lost, get over it, they will be fine and get behind remaining to make it a success. Remaining in the EU will be great if you just believe in it.

Why would you believe that remaining would be great. It hasn't been so far.

 

[The Clamp]

Don't try and pass it over, I was accusing you of being exactly what you claim others are like, and you then claimed ignorance. You sir, are a hypocrite.

Huh? I genuinely have no idea what gammon means outside of the context of “gammon faced Brexiteers “. I’m afraid anything beyond that is your own issue. Heaped atop a mountain of other issues by the look of it.
If you’d care to enlighten me as to what other meaning “gammon” has , we can have a discussion. Past that, there is nothing I can do for you.
I’m off a night shift and going to bed so I’ll look forward to your response later.

NNSTTBFNTC

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Why would you believe that remaining would be great. It hasn't been so far.

Can you remember prior to 1975? Three day week, power cuts, rabid inflation, economy dropping like a stone, having to go cap in hand to the IMF for loans at a punitive rate.
Since the Brexit vote in 2016, we've already lost our triple A status for loans.

 

[Is it PotG?]

Can you remember prior to 1975? Three day week, power cuts, rabid inflation, economy dropping like a stone, having to go cap in hand to the IMF for loans at a punitive rate.
Since the Brexit vote in 2016, we've already lost our triple A status for loans.

Oh how I miss those lovely 80s years of interest rates well north of 10%. Great days.

 

[Baldseagull]

Why would you believe that remaining would be great. It hasn't been so far.

Thats because you keep talking the EU down, if you just got behind it and believed in the spirit of Europeans it would be brilliant.