[Politics] Brexit

[albionfan37]

So you'll never bother voting on anything else again then? Just stick with how it is because people voted for it a while ago and the majority thought it was ok at the time? That's not democracy.

Amazes me how many people must actually have been listening to Theresa May and thinking "yeah, well she's got a point on that 'will of the people' thing". Instead of "shut up you stupid ****, you're just trying to save your own job".

Meh.

I can only assume you’re stupid!? It was a couple of years ago not 50 mate the problem is that people have forgotten how to lose these days and to do so with a bit of dignity you sound like a bitter kid stamping his feet because he’s only got 30 birthday presents instead of 32

 

[albionfan37]

We absolutely do not have to follow it. That has been stressed by both the U.K. and the EU on many occasions.

What was the point in a vote then? If you don’t need to honour it?

 

[LlcoolJ]

I can only assume you’re stupid!? It was a couple of years ago not 50 mate the problem is that people have forgotten how to lose these days and to do so with a bit of dignity you sound like a bitter kid stamping his feet because he’s only got 30 birthday presents instead of 32

Wow.

 

[pastafarian]

We absolutely do not have to follow it. That has been stressed by both the U.K. and the EU on many occasions.

Jesus wept.
If there was a democratic decision in the future in favour of rejoining the EU again after we have left, via a referendum of which the government of the day said the referendum decision would be implemented whatever the decision (whether it was rejoin or stay out) you are saying we absolutely do not have to follow up that democratic decision.
What effing planet are you on.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

No one version of it seems to have been defined

Much like Brexit.

 

[The Clamp]

Jesus wept.
If there was a democratic decision in the future in favour of rejoining the EU again after we have left, via a referendum of which the government of the day said the referendum decision would be implemented whatever the decision (whether it was rejoin or stay out) you are saying we absolutely do not have to follow up that democratic decision.
What effing planet are you on.

I know it’s hard for you to hear but you are applying emotion and frustration to a simple lawful matter. Referendums are not binding. A politician saying they will stick to the result does not change the law.
It was and remains thoroughly undemocratic to change the law surrounding referendums just to suit an agenda or placate a sector of society.
The law says we don’t have to abide by the result. The EU says we don’t have to abide by the result. It’s only careerist politicians and stubborn Brexiteers who want to overturn democracy and make a referendum result binding.

Take away your emotion over the topic, your dislike of me and other remainers and really your argument falls to pieces. In fact it fell to pieces 2.5 years ago.

 

[clapham_gull]

Jesus wept.
If there was a democratic decision in the future in favour of rejoining the EU again after we have left, via a referendum of which the government of the day said the referendum decision would be implemented whatever the decision (whether it was rejoin or stay out) you are saying we absolutely do not have to follow up that democratic decision.
What effing planet are you on.

This is why referendum are frankly a bit shit.

Sent from my BTV-DL09 using Tapatalk

 

[pastafarian]

I know it’s hard for you to hear but you are applying emotion and frustration to a simple lawful matter. Referendums are not binding. A politician saying they will stick to the result does not change the law.
It was and remains thoroughly undemocratic to change the law surrounding referendums just to suit an agenda or placate a sector of society.
The law says we don’t have to abide by the result. The EU says we don’t have to abide by the result. It’s only careerist politicians and stubborn Brexiteers who want to overturn democracy and make a referendum result binding.

Take away your emotion over the topic, your dislike of me and other remainers and really your argument falls to pieces. In fact it fell to pieces 2.5 years ago.

You have an astonishing democratic deficit and a ridiculous disregard for parliamentary accountability to the public if you think democratic decisions absolutely do not have to be followed up.Your path is for every referendum in the future to be disregarded even if legally advisory only and the decision was promised to be implemented. That would be utter chaos. Have you learned nothing for this one and the losing side refusing to accept a democratic vote.

ps dont dislike remainers, its remoaners i cant stand......not the same thing.

 

[The Clamp]

You have an astonishing democratic deficit and a ridiculous disregard for parliamentary accountability to the public if you think democratic decisions absolutely do not have to be followed up.Your path is for every referendum in the future to be disregarded even if legally advisory only but the decision was promised to be implemented. That would be utter chaos. Have you learned nothing for this one and the losing side refusing to accept a democratic vote.

ps dont dislike remainers, its remoaners i cant stand......not the same thing.

You can’t just pick and choose when you want democracy. Governments are elected to do what’s best for the people.
Brexit is not in our best interests.
Theresa May knows this.
She is following the referendum result to stay in power not to be democratic.
Referendums are not legally binding.
The result should not be acted upon.
Referendum are advisory.
The government should learn from the result.
Be more proactive in changing the parts of the EU that we disagree with.
The government should halt Brexit.
That is the only truly democratic thing to do.


You don’t seem to like anyone.

 

[pastafarian]

This is why referendum are frankly a bit shit.

Sent from my BTV-DL09 using Tapatalk

Cant see parliament agreeing to another referendum on anything for donkeys years now......shame really, would have liked the opportunity for the public to decide and reform the outdated House of Lords rather than parliament balls it up.

 

[pastafarian]

You can’t just pick and choose when you want democracy. Governments are elected to do what’s best for the people.
Brexit is not in our best interests.
Theresa May knows this.
She is following the referendum result to stay in power not to be democratic.
Referendums are not legally binding.
The result should not be acted upon.
Referendum are advisory.
The government should learn from the result.
Be more proactive in changing the parts of the EU that we disagree with.
The government should halt Brexit.
That is the only truly democratic thing to do.


You don’t seem to like anyone.

Astonishing.
Parliament itself democratically decided (overwhelmingly) to give the decision on whether or not to remain in The EU to me and to you. If you truly believe your vote was irrelevant and parliament should simply be able to ignore a democratic decision anyway no matter what ,why did you bother to vote in the first place if you thought your opinion didnt matter.

 

[The Clamp]

Astonishing.
Parliament itself democratically decided (overwhelmingly) to give the decision on whether or not to remain in The EU to me and to you. If you truly believe your vote was irrelevant and parliament should simply be able to ignore a democratic decision anyway no matter what ,why did you bother to vote in the first place if you thought your opinion didnt matter.

In an advisory context the referendum was very useful. It should have informed our government that while the margin was too close to realistically act upon and knowing that leaving the EU is really not in our best interest, there is clearly dissatisfaction with some areas of the EU.
Immigration, perception of having no real say, the perception of how our money is spent.
Perhaps then our government could have become more proactive in changing some of these aspects and making a concerted effort to dispel some of the myths surround our EU contributions etc.
So yes, the referendum could have been very useful. Instead it has been used as a means to an end by the government and by the likes of Farage and BJ to further their careers and agendas. With varying levels of success!

Referendums have a purpose. They got that wrong in this case.

Obviously not everyone agrees with my point of view.

 

[pastafarian]

In an advisory context the referendum was very useful. It should have informed our government that while the margin was too close to realistically act upon and knowing that leaving the EU is really not in our best interest, there is clearly dissatisfaction with some areas of the EU.
Immigration, perception of having no real say, the perception of how our money is spent.
Perhaps then our government could have become more proactive in changing some of these aspects and making a concerted effort to dispel some of the myths surround our EU contributions etc.
So yes, the referendum could have been very useful. Instead it has been used as a means to an end by the government and by the likes of Farage and BJ to further their careers and agendas. With varying levels of success!

Referendums have a purpose. They got that wrong in this case.

Obviously not everyone agrees with my point of view.

You are now deflecting and talking about information gained from the referendum debating issues .The vote itself was a simple IN or OUT choice.
Why did you bother to vote at all and put your cross next to remain if you thought your "advisory" opinion ultimately didnt matter at all or had no influence on the outcome considering you think parliament doesnt need to follow up on your opinion anyway. What made you think its important that you must vote.
You argued prior to the referendum that its important to listen to experts when casting your vote, bit odd to think the vote was an important decision before you lost but an unimportant one after you had lost.
Sums you up really.

 

[The Clamp]

You are now deflecting and talking about information gained from the referendum debating issues .The vote itself was a simple IN or OUT choice.
Why did you bother to vote at all and put your cross next to remain if you thought your "advisory" opinion ultimately didnt matter at all or had no influence on the outcome considering you think parliament doesnt need to follow up on your opinion anyway. What made you think its important that you must vote.
You argued prior to the referendum that its important to listen to experts when casting your vote, bit odd to think the vote was an important decision before you lost but an unimportant one after you had lost.
Sums you up really.

I’ve explained plainly, politely and comprehensively why I think the referendum was significant.
I’m sorry that it is beyond you to respect that. You are a strange, argumentative fellow, impossible to like or get along with.
You rarely offer any original opinion but instead seem to trawl this board looking for people with opposing views to pick a row with.
You’re a liar, a pervert, a troll , a bore and a spectacular nonsense of a man. I pity you.

 

[DavePage]

Very concise

 

[pastafarian]

I’ve explained plainly, politely and comprehensively why I think the referendum was significant.
I’m sorry that it is beyond you to respect that. You are a strange, argumentative fellow, impossible to like or get along with.
You rarely offer any original opinion but instead seem to trawl this board looking for people with opposing views to pick a row with.
You’re a liar, a pervert, a troll , a bore and a spectacular nonsense of a man. I pity you.

No need to get all angry, defensive and rude because you are struggling.
Forget if you can why the referendum was significant and answer why you thought your vote itself was significant enough to have made you put a cross against remain when you are claiming your vote was irrelevant and didn’t matter because parliament can just chose to not follow up on your opinion.
Why did you think before you lost the vote I must vote and do my bit to make sure LEAVE must not win the referendum and the UK leaves the EU if you didn’t think your advisory opinion really mattered anyway yet now you think the vote decision was all a bit irrelevant after you lost the vote because governments must govern and dont have to follow up on a democratic decision anyway.

I’ve explained politely
You’re a liar, a pervert, a troll , a bore and a spectacular nonsense of a man. I pity you.

Your politeness has been duly noted, I get the feeling you are struggling with the definition though

 

[The Clamp]

No need to get all angry, defensive and rude because you are struggling.
Forget if you can why the referendum was significant and answer why you thought your vote itself was significant enough to have made you put a cross against remain when you are claiming your vote was irrelevant and didn’t matter because parliament can just chose to not follow up on your opinion.
Why did you think before you lost the vote I must vote and do my bit to make sure LEAVE must not win the referendum and the UK leaves the EU if you didn’t think your advisory opinion really mattered anyway yet now you think the vote decision was all a bit irrelevant after you lost the vote because governments must govern and dont have to follow up on a democratic decision anyway.




Your politeness has been duly noted, I get the feeling you are struggling with the definition though

I have not claimed that at all. You are lying. Again.
Christ you are thick. I voted because the government stated they would honour the result of the referendum. How votes work is, the side with the most votes wins. I wanted remain to win so I used my vote to vote for remain hoping that it would add to a majority of other remain voters.
Remain lost. I think Brexit is clearly not in our best interests and it should be vetoed but lessons learned.

Is there anything else I can clear up for you or would you like to get back to your "Really nasty porn"?

 

[Stat Brother]

[tweet]1085260488903090176[/tweet]

 

[pastafarian]

I have not claimed that at all. You are lying. Again.
Christ you are thick. I voted because the government stated they would honour the result of the referendum. How votes work is, the side with the most votes wins. I wanted remain to win so I used my vote to vote for remain hoping that it would add to a majority of other remain voters.
Remain lost. I think Brexit is clearly not in our best interests and it should be vetoed.

Is there anything else I can clear up for you or would you like to get back to your "Really nasty porn"?

I see, so you fully expected the gov to honour the democratic decision just like most people who respect democracy would expect the decision to be honoured and we Leave the EU yet you say the democratic decision shouldnt be followed up on and "The government should halt Brexit." "The result should not be acted upon." all because in your opinion, and against a democratic decision that you lost "Brexit is not in our best interests."........even though you recognise how democracy works is "the side with the most votes wins" and you expect the gov to "honour the result of the referendum" of the winning side.
Not forgetting of course on a purely advisory vote that has no relevance to the outcome decision apparently, you believe it important to have your vote heard
You are royally messed up and incredibly self absorbed.

 

[London Irish]

The Tories have blown it - they tried to use the Brexit referendum vote to separate Labour from their Labour Leave voters, which is why Remain supporter Theresa May suddenly started sounding like Nigel Farage with all her no deal is better than a bad deal bullshite.

If a non partisan parliamentary committee had been established after 2016 to get a consensus Brexit position, taking some aspects of the Tory vision and some of Labour preferences on workers rights and a permanent customs union, Brexit would probably have happened.

Now the whole thing will be delayed, Article 50 will have to be extended and all the while the clock ticking weakens the democratic mandate of the 2016 vote.

The 2017 general election left an ungovernable Parliament so we urgently need a fresh general election to break the deadlock. Another referendum would be a joke as no one knows the question to ask and you establish a precedent that you keep having referendums until you get the answer you want.

After a general election there might be one last chance to implement a very soft Brexit, which is all a 52-48 vote legitimately gives you the right to do. But that would require the Tories to work with Labour on a compromise solution and those arrogant born to rule dangers won’t do that in a million years