[Politics] Brexit

[Baldseagull]

I haven't bothered reading too far back on this thread, but how do you work that out? No deal is about as likely as a second referendum IMO. Just because May is desperately trying to shore up enough votes for her crap agreement, it doesn't mean no deal is about to happen when that gets thrown out.

Personally I am divided between a) hoping she somehow gets it through parliament just because the country has never felt so divided and it's time we moved on, and b) hoping it gets thrown out, as a second referendum will surely be just around the corner, far more likely than no deal.

Trouble with a) is that this isn't moving on, and Brexit is done, this deal is just setting us up for the next decade of negotiations, with at least 2 more deadlines that will come round too soon and create a crisis, in fighting in Government and paralysis, otherwise known as leverage points for the EU.

 

[Baldseagull]

To be fair, you summarised and missed


UK - We'll tell you what we want, what we really really want
EU - Yes tell us what you want, what you really really want
UK - We'll tell you what we want, what we really really want
EU - Yes tell us what you want, what you really really want
UK - We'll tell you what we want, what we really really want
EU - Yes tell us what you want, what you really really want
UK - We'll tell you what we want, what we really really want
EU - Yes tell us what you want, what you really really want (repeat for 18 months)

U.K. - We want this
EU - No you can’t have it, you can have what we say you can
U.K. - Ok

You mean we can't zig-a-zig-ahh? What was the bloody point then?

 

[WATFORD zero]

no, im saying that the foundation of a trade deal is straight forward as it already exists. a couple of years is required to sort out corner cases and specfic points of contention, not start a deal from a blank sheet of paper as is the case with often cited other examples. shirley you can accept this point, that we arent starting from scratch?

Everything that we currently do and all deals we have are based on us being members of the EU.

On 29th March 2019 we become an independent nation with an independent economy. Yet you believe that every other country and trading bloc should honour the same deals that we had when we were over 6 times bigger.

Why would any of them want to do that, without renegotiating ?

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

To be fair, you summarised and missed


UK - We'll tell you what we want, what we really really want
EU - Yes tell us what you want, what you really really want
UK - We'll tell you what we want, what we really really want
EU - Yes tell us what you want, what you really really want
UK - We'll tell you what we want, what we really really want
EU - Yes tell us what you want, what you really really want
UK - We'll tell you what we want, what we really really want
EU - Yes tell us what you want, what you really really want (repeat for 18 months)

U.K. - We want this
EU - No you can’t have it, you can have what we say you can
U.K. - Ok

So here's the story from A to Z
You wanna split with me you gotta listen carefully
We got UK in the place with egg on our face
We wanna fish in the sea, and want our movement free
But don't blame Tory (she's a nice lady)
And as for trade? HA you'll see!
Article 50's down, help we're gonna drown
Article 50's down, help we're gonna drown.

 

[Berty23]

no, im saying that the foundation of a trade deal is straight forward as it already exists. a couple of years is required to sort out corner cases and specfic points of contention, not start a deal from a blank sheet of paper as is the case with often cited other examples. shirley you can accept this point, that we arent starting from scratch?

Isn’t the problem that people in this country are deluded and think that having a starting point of the current deal makes this easier? The EU have consistently said we will get a worse deal so it might be easier to start again because how will it land here when people keep finding out how everything is just a little bit worse?

 

[ManOfSussex]

no, im saying that the foundation of a trade deal is straight forward as it already exists. a couple of years is required to sort out corner cases and specfic points of contention, not start a deal from a blank sheet of paper as is the case with often cited other examples. shirley you can accept this point, that we arent starting from scratch?

So because the foundation of a trade deal exists, e.g. the status quo, only 'a couple of years' is therefore required to sort out the aforementioned 'trivial' points, such as the Irish border etc - basically The EU will agree to a 'straight forward' or have our cake and eat it trade deal for The UK in lightening quick time and we wont need any new infrastructure, systems or staff in place too. Got you.

and when Maty Ryan is at The Asia Cup in January, I'll be playing in goal against Liverpool.

 

[pb21]

Indeed but she obviously hasn't learnt from the negative campaigning of Remain during the referendum ..... something that lost them the vote !

True.

I guess all she can do then is lie and say how great it’s all going to be, and employ some dubious/corrupt practices.

In fact that sounds familiar too.

 

[ManOfSussex]

True.

I guess all she can do then is lie and say how great it’s all going to be, and employ some dubious/corrupt practices.

In fact that sounds familiar too.

If there are any Tory MP's who are going to vote against this agreement, I think it'll be best for them if they don't have any skeletons in the cupboard from their personal lives that a Sunday newspaper would be interested in.

 

[pb21]

If there are any Tory MP's who are going to vote against this agreement, I think it'll be best for them if they don't have any skeletons in the cupboard from their personal lives that a Sunday newspaper would be interested in.

Good point; the stick of public humiliation and the Knighted carrot. In fact it makes you wonder what Gove is doing hanging around.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Well I have emailed my MP (Sir Nicholas Soames) with my thoughts, although I really cant imagine him voting against a Tory government, regardless of how bad it is.

Well yes, and the member for Arundel and South Downs doesn't seem to respond either. Both Herbert and Soames, whilst remainers, are May loyalists so we're probably wasting our time.

But trying to influence MPs isn't seen as a job for individual constituents. May's strategy is to try and shift public opinion in the direction of her deal in the hope that polling data then influences MPs. At the moment that data seems to be swinging in the direction of a second referendum but she's got a fortnight to turn that round. The disinformation has already begun so clearly she's made a start.

 

[pb21]

If there are any Tory MP's who are going to vote against this agreement, I think it'll be best for them if they don't have any skeletons in the cupboard from their personal lives that a Sunday newspaper would be interested in.

Also Johnson seems remarkably quiet recently.

 

[DIFFBROOK]

Slightly off topic, but for me this is what Brexit in part was about. People feeling disconnected with their lot in the UK and because our main political parties kept the staus quo (Was Blair/Brown Govr radically different from John Majors/Cameron?), then they used a referendum to voice that desire for change.

For me, that was in the wrong direction because Brexit will not help the jobless/crap schools etc - indeed it might make it worse if the economy doesn't grow as fast.

I would much rather have a quite different voting system in this country. One that makes all of our votes more equal. If I were a Labour Voter in a staunch tory seat, or vice versa I would feel totally dispossessed -and I do in Elmet. The majority of our constituencies are of that make up. Some form of PR. If that means are political parties have to work together more in order to get legislation through, so much the better. I think it would make for better Govt.

Equally, if you are jobless and live on a sink estate with your kids going to a crap school, what motivation is there for those people to vote to keep the status quo? For me, this is one of the dangers of referendums.

 

[Berty23]

'In' or 'out'.

How would a smart-arse have framed the question better? You seem well placed to answer.

Hasn’t the last 2 years shown why it was a dumb question. Out means something different to everyone.

 

[Ernest]

Quite funny seeing Nadhim 'Heat my stables you plebs' Zahawi trying to use 2 different arguments at the same time on Politics Live, one for the ERG and one for the remainers

 

[beorhthelm]

So because the foundation of a trade deal exists, e.g. the status quo, only 'a couple of years' is therefore required to sort out the aforementioned 'trivial' points, such as the Irish border etc - basically The EU will agree to a 'straight forward' or have our cake and eat it trade deal for The UK in lightening quick time and we wont need any new infrastructure, systems or staff in place too. Got you.

and when Maty Ryan is at The Asia Cup in January, I'll be playing in goal against Liverpool.

no reasonable discussion is there, i said regulation would be trivial, you want to find all the difficult issues then just harumph and say nothing can be done.

 

[Pavilionaire]

How can Theresa May on the one hand duck the TV debate before the 2017 General Election to which all the other party leaders turned up, yet think it is right to do this TV debate against a bloke who already agrees with her that Brexit should happen?

They'll be debating two things:

1) A Deal that the EU has already signed off and said they're not prepared to renegotiate and
2) A future trade deal in which both will deny they'll remain tied to the EU but - in reality - they clearly will be.

 

[ManOfSussex]

no reasonable discussion is there, i said regulation would be trivial, you want to find all the difficult issues then just harumph and say nothing can be done.

Apologies, I forgot that as it'll be the easiest trade deal in human history, regulations and everything therefore should all be trivial matters.

 

[Two Professors]

Out should have been split into a variety of different options.

Why not 'In' split into a variety of different options?

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

If this half baked nonsense in/out Brexit is rejected by MP's, then they will simply not allow a no deal. Seems to me that we are closer to staying in the EU more than ever before. On our way

but we are leaving the EU in MARCH 2019
regards
DR

 

[Two Professors]

Is this some pathetic attempt to parody yourself, as even you cannot be that stupid

Even you can't be that dumb,can you?