[Politics] Brexit

[Westdene Seagull]

I posted that link a few days ago, but Westdene wasn't interested in reading it because it is an EU document.

Come on TB .... not more lies .... you're better than that. You know I read some of it and as I pointed out, it's hardly a balanced article having been written by ...... the EU !!!!

 

[Baldseagull]

hardly mythbusting, puts up its own myths, strawmen, half truths and points of debate. there is one significant myth, that a people's vote isnt another referendum. i dont understand why the dishonesty on this, except to fudge around the entire point of not accepting the first. if you cant start a discussion about having another referndum from a basis of honest debate, what hope for the campaign?

Of course it is another referendum, what it isn't is a second referendum on the exact same issue.

Which of the following is it that you are defining as a straw man position? With the exception of the statement saying we would lose our exemptions if we revoked A50 and remained, I think all of the statements have been seen on this thread

‘A People’s Vote would be undemocratic’

‘Now that Article 50 has been triggered, Brexit cannot be reversed’

‘Even if we chose to revoke Article 50 and stay in the EU, we would lose the rebate and our exemptions from Schengen and the Euro’

‘There isn’t enough time to hold a People’s Vote before we leave the EU’

‘We can’t have a People’s Vote because we won’t know the terms of the future UK-EU relationship until after we have left’

‘Those advocating a People’s Vote simply want a re-run because they didn’t like the result first time around’

‘We send £350 million to the EU every week’

‘We cannot control immigration from Europe as a member of the EU’

‘EU migration has driven down wages’

‘The EU need us more than we need them’

‘Other countries/Turkey will be joining the EU soon’

‘We are constantly outvoted in Brussels by other EU countries’

‘Being in the EU means we can’t trade with the rest of the world’

‘The EU hasn’t changed at all since the Brexit vote, so why should we change our minds’

‘EU laws are made by unelected bureaucrats’

‘If we changed our minds and stayed in the EU we would lose our sovereignty’

 

[Baldseagull]

Come on TB .... not more lies .... you're better than that. You know I read some of it and as I pointed out, it's hardly a balanced article having been written by ...... the EU !!!!

It is not an opinion piece, it is a list of misrepresentations of EU laws in the UK press, followed by a correction of what the law actually means.
If I said "Westdene Seagull is a 15 year old" and you post a copy of your birth certificate proving otherwise, I could not dismiss that as biased because it was you that presented it, it would be a bloody fact, whoever presented it.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

It is not an opinion piece, it is a list of misrepresentations of EU laws in the UK press, followed by a correction of what the law actually means.
If I said "Westdene Seagull is a 15 year old" and you post a copy of your birth certificate proving otherwise, I could not dismiss that as biased because it was you that presented it, it would be a bloody fact, whoever presented it.

Indeed. Yes, Westdene you looked at a few, maybe three or four items and then dismissed it.

 

[beorhthelm]

Which of the following is it that you are defining as a straw man position? With the exception of the statement saying we would lose our exemptions if we revoked A50 and remained, I think all of the statements have been seen on this thread

dont really consider what we see here as an accurate reflection of serious arguments. perhaps i have read enough to see all these made by politicans. the one that stood out was "Being in the EU means we can’t trade with the rest of the world" which is patently false and cant imagine anyone claiming that. the point is most of the "myths" are not simple to refute, they are part of the arguement which has been raging for 2-3 years, cant just say they're all busted.

 

[bha100]

dont really consider what we see here as an accurate reflection of serious arguments. perhaps i have read enough to see all these made by politicans. the one that stood out was "Being in the EU means we can’t trade with the rest of the world" which is patently false and cant imagine anyone claiming that. the point is most of the "myths" are not simple to refute, they are part of the arguement which has been raging for 2-3 years, cant just say they're all busted.

http://2mbg6fgb1kl380gtk22pbxgw-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/Your-Right-to-Know.pdf

 

[beorhthelm]

http://2mbg6fgb1kl380gtk22pbxgw-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/Your-Right-to-Know.pdf

if ERG want Canada ++++++ they should take the time of the transition period to negotiate and set that in motion. crying over the withdrawal agreement when there is no other option isnt going to make it happen.

 

[Baldseagull]

dont really consider what we see here as an accurate reflection of serious arguments. perhaps i have read enough to see all these made by politicans. the one that stood out was "Being in the EU means we can’t trade with the rest of the world" which is patently false and cant imagine anyone claiming that. the point is most of the "myths" are not simple to refute, they are part of the arguement which has been raging for 2-3 years, cant just say they're all busted.

I would not be so certain that there are not people out there that believe that to be true, but I agree that the more widely held opinion, and the one that has some points that are not so easily dismissed, is that the EU reduces our ability to have favourable trading terms with the rest of the world, but i disagree that the majority of those listed are straw man myths.
I think the majority on the list are simple to refute, and are beliefs that people posting to this thread have held, even if they no longer hold them.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

if ERG want Canada ++++++ they should take the time of the transition period to negotiate and set that in motion. crying over the withdrawal agreement when there is no other option isnt going to make it happen.

We should avoid signing an agreement and then tearing it up.

 

[ManOfSussex]

A good day to bury bad news ? the Tories get away with this time after time and have no conscience.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46236642

I saw Peter Bone MP interviewed live on Sky News about 45 minutes ago and he was asked about this report and he said that Professor Alston is talking 'absolute nonsense' because the most vulnerable in our society are going to be so much better off after Brexit...........................'if Brexit happens.' This, after rambling on about the horrors of what would happen if didn't leave on the 29th March next year too. It could be said that he almost seemed a little rattled at the current state of play.

Interesting. Very interesting. As Barry Davies once said.

 

[Stat Brother]

Oh for a creditable opposition:-

[tweet]1064083694598672385[/tweet]

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

The ERG have changed the term used to the “spirit of the referendum” rather than what people voted for in the latest press release.

Are they accepting this deal is us leaving the EU?

 

[Ernest]

Oh for a creditable opposition:-

[tweet]1064083694598672385[/tweet]

If you read the rest because he said he didn’t know the question , what a massive fail by you

 

[Hampster Gull]

Oh for a creditable opposition:-

[tweet]1064083694598672385[/tweet]

He is undefendable...

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

These last couple of days I have heard a number of MPs and political commentators saying that 'no deal' isn't still an option in the timescales

Shirley not.

Someone really should break this to Two profs, Ppf, melias shoes, Baker lite, BigGully, Larus etc, etc (I have tried for the last year, but they won't believe me)

you only hear what you want to hear , still dreaming of that Norway style soft of softest brexit ?
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

He could have said he would vote to remain and that a remain option HAS to be put on any second refurendum.

why when the vote was to leave ?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ne...or-the-EU-referendum-vote-will-look-like.html
regards
DR

 

[Westdene Seagull]

He could have said he would vote to remain and that a remain option HAS to be put on any second refurendum.

You've not grasped that Corbyn has been anti-EU his whole political life have you ?

 

[Dave the OAP]

You've not grasped that Corbyn has been anti-EU his whole political life have you ?

To be fair, Corbyn is anti anything that doesn't match his hard line leftist agenda.

I'd vote for him though.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

To be fair, Corbyn is anti anything that doesn't match his hard line leftist agenda.

I'd vote for him though.

Indeed. I voted for him indirectly by voting for Peter Kyle ..... not sure they're the same beast though.

 

[Hastings gull]

You've not grasped that Corbyn has been anti-EU his whole political life have you ?

Yes, that is what I have always thought -I am sure that the far-left position with regard to the EU used to be that of suspicion, to put it mildly, as they saw the EU as an extension of capitalism.