[Politics] Brexit

[Stat Brother]

Brexit: David Davis calls for cabinet rebellion over PM's plan

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45853384

Cowardly sat on the outside lobbing grenades in.

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

Stop your whining, you have been told repeatedly by leavers there is a perfectly acceptable vote that can be had on the deal, one that respects the initial democratic vote as well and doesn’t weasel out of democracy.


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I think he understands it just fine
But that’s rich coming from the bloke who didn’t know a concluded trade deal comes after we Leave, who didn’t realise the chequers proposal and the withdrawal agreement were separate entities and thought the chequers proposal was THE Withdrawal Agreement, then got confused about the difference between The European Union (withdrawal) Act and The Withdrawal agreement with The EU……..have another hat, you seem to have worn your last one out.

Surprised Mystic Meg didn’t warn you that you were going to be so clueless.



You’ve got to laugh how May has managed to control the rhetoric over the red herring “no deal” with some carefully worded contingency papers and managed to manipulate remoaners (not the same as remainers) into now subconsciously backing a chequers deal over a no deal. She has managed to get them, with their love of doom and Armageddon, working for her and they don’t ever realise it.




3 Hours? You must have gone to a shit airport. Breezed through Atlanta in under an hour recently.
Just recently picked up some yank friends from Gatwick, they were through passport and customs and in the arrival hall 40 minutes after landing. Its not the first time they are getting through much quicker than in the past either, Gatwick seems to be getting much quicker at processing. Pretty sure they are not in the EU.




Why didn’t you realise intra-EU travel would change and be different if a leave vote won.
The leave voters knew things would be different if we were out of the EU and freedom of movement ended.
Were you asleep during the referendum process? Are you representative of remain voters in general, did they in general not realise either? How are you only waking up to this now?

How the hell is that referendum going to help the country.
First time around the majority of leave voters were so ignorant that they understood none of the implications of leaving bar immigration and 'i don't like the EU let's get out , I saw it in Facebook'.
This time we are asking the same mongs, of which there are millions, to make another important choice when they won't know fuk all about the leave deal either.
Our only hope is that on voting day the leave voters decide to have a duvet day, eating pizza, taking drugs and getting pissed and letting the far more informed, smarter, intelligent and sober remain voter make the right (Hobson's) choice.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Stop your whining, you have been told repeatedly by leavers there is a perfectly acceptable vote that can be had on the deal, one that respects the initial democratic vote as well and doesn’t weasel out of democracy.


View attachment 101287

And the best bit is that even with your referendum above, you still wouldn't know where to put your cross

Or, after 2.5 years, have you decided what you want (Simple question, which box would you tick in 'your' ballot).

Cue another load of deflection and whataboutism

 

[beorhthelm]

And the best bit is that even with your referendum above, you still wouldn't know where to put your cross

Or, after 2.5 years, have you decided what you want (Simple question, which box would you tick in 'your' ballot).

Cue another load of deflection and whataboutism

same problem with any referendum question, a large majority from both sides dont really know enough about the deep complexities. why is a second referendum going to "solve" anything, unless its purpose is to deliver an end to Brexit, and what happens if theres another narrow victory to leave? we've determined that the issues are too complex for the public, the referendum was a bad idea, so shouldnt we rely on parliament to resolve this?

 

[daveinplzen]

If we end up leaving the EU without a deal, im beginning to hope that every Brexit voter pays heavily because of it. The vote was nothing more than emotional nonsense versus a world reality.
Sovereignty back. We never lost it. Even TM has admitted this.
Immigration. Was needed, now English workshy citizens will be offered jobs in fields, to get them off the dole. Good luck with that.
Also amusing that some Brexiteers were telling asian people they were going home. Showing a complete understanding of the vote. Not.
NHS 350 million a week..According the the Brexiteers, everybody knew that wasnt going to happen. Good of you to point that out before the vote.
The blitz spirit? haha Thousands calling the police because KFC ran out of chicken.
Thanks Brexiteers.

 

[WATFORD zero]

same problem with any referendum question, a large majority from both sides dont really know enough about the deep complexities. why is a second referendum going to "solve" anything, unless its purpose is to deliver an end to Brexit, and what happens if theres another narrow victory to leave? we've determined that the issues are too complex for the public, the referendum was a bad idea, so shouldnt we rely on parliament to resolve this?

Simple question, which box would you tick in 'your' ballot

 

[pastafarian]

How the hell is that referendum going to help the country.
First time around the majority of leave voters were so ignorant that they understood none of the implications of leaving bar immigration and 'i don't like the EU let's get out , I saw it in Facebook'.
This time we are asking the same mongs, of which there are millions, to make another important choice when they won't know fuk all about the leave deal either.
Our only hope is that on voting day the leave voters decide to have a duvet day, eating pizza, taking drugs and getting pissed and letting the far more informed, smarter, intelligent and sober remain voter make the right (Hobson's) choice.

You want a vote on the deal, that is a vote on the deal. And it respects democracy not cheats it by acknowledging the initial democratic vote to Leave.
But I will agree with you the call for another vote as proposed by the remainers is stupid as voters indeed will not know all the facts surrounding a leave deal as crucially the nitty gritty of trade talks do not begin until after the withdrawal agreement is concluded and ratified and we are out of the EU.
At least this way you are voting to accept or reject the exit deal as legally proposed in a treaty without the need to force more speculation on what a concluded trade deal will be (as planned to be finalised by the end of the implementation period) onto the public.
The peoples vote need to be more honest about this.

And the best bit is that even with your referendum above, you still wouldn't know where to put your cross

Or, after 2.5 years, have you decided what you want (Simple question, which box would you tick in 'your' ballot).

Cue another load of deflection and whataboutism

I agree with you, the peoples vote is stupid. I dont see what the public could add to the debate above parliament.
Let parliament decide whether we leave the EU with no deal or leave the EU with a deal. They have had the important instruction to Leave from us, let them sort out the details.
When negotiations have concluded and the withdrawal agreement is finalised and on the table and the future relationship proposal, in whatever form it takes at the end of negotiations is on the table too, let them assess it and vote how we leave accordingly. I wouldnt want them voting now though before negotiations have concluded, only a simpleton would propose that.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I agree with you, the peoples vote is stupid. I dont see what the public could add to the debate above parliament.
Let parliament decide whether we leave the EU with no deal or leave the EU with a deal. They have had the important instruction to Leave from us, let them sort out the details.
When negotiations have concluded and the withdrawal agreement is finalised and on the table and the future relationship proposal, in whatever form it takes at the end of negotiations is on the table too, let them assess it and vote how we leave accordingly. I wouldnt want them voting now though before negotiations have concluded, only a simpleton would propose that.

Well we both agree that a referendum without knowing the facts is stupid.

And once again, (you being the expert in this ), when is that due to happen, that we will have the withdrawal finalised and the future relationship details ?

 

[beorhthelm]

and then you have Labour saying they wont agree with any deal "May cooks up the EU" (Thornbury, on TV this moment). so helpful.

 

[pastafarian]

Well we both agree that a referendum without knowing the facts is stupid.

And once again, (you being the expert in this ), when is that due to happen, that we will have the withdrawal finalised and the future relationship details ?

Its due to happen before the 29th March 2019.

 

[beorhthelm]

The blitz spirit? haha Thousands calling the police because KFC ran out of chicken.

point well made, we're not quite made of the same stuff anymore.

 

[Baldseagull]

Stop your whining, you have been told repeatedly by leavers there is a perfectly acceptable vote that can be had on the deal, one that respects the initial democratic vote as well and doesn’t weasel out of democracy.


View attachment 101287




I think he understands it just fine
But that’s rich coming from the bloke who didn’t know a concluded trade deal comes after we Leave, who didn’t realise the chequers proposal and the withdrawal agreement were separate entities and thought the chequers proposal was THE Withdrawal Agreement, then got confused about the difference between The European Union (withdrawal) Act and The Withdrawal agreement with The EU……..have another hat, you seem to have worn your last one out.

Surprised Mystic Meg didn’t warn you that you were going to be so clueless.



You’ve got to laugh how May has managed to control the rhetoric over the red herring “no deal” with some carefully worded contingency papers and managed to manipulate remoaners (not the same as remainers) into now subconsciously backing a chequers deal over a no deal. She has managed to get them, with their love of doom and Armageddon, working for her and they don’t ever realise it.




3 Hours? You must have gone to a shit airport. Breezed through Atlanta in under an hour recently.
Just recently picked up some yank friends from Gatwick, they were through passport and customs and in the arrival hall 40 minutes after landing. Its not the first time they are getting through much quicker than in the past either, Gatwick seems to be getting much quicker at processing. Pretty sure the US are not in the EU.




Why didn’t you realise intra-EU travel would change and be different if a leave vote won.
The leave voters knew things would be different if we were out of the EU and freedom of movement ended.
Were you asleep during the referendum process? Are you representative of remain voters in general, did they in general not realise either? How are you only waking up to this now?

You do know though that we only get the transition period for certain if there is a broad agreement on what we will transition to, if we end up saying stuff any deal and any "divorce payments", I suspect the EU would want to start collecting import tariffs on British sales into the EU sooner rather than later.
There should be a good indication of what our future trading arrangements will be before we exit, as this is looking impossible to achieve, with groups on both sides prepared to block an agreement that is either too soft or too hard, to get anything other than no deal by accident, a second vote looks more likely than ever to me.

 

[Baldseagull]

Its due to happen before the 29th March 2019.

Very rare that a Government delivers any major project on time, be prepared for delays.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Its due to happen before the 29th March 2019.

Well, as we all know that won't happen, you are happy to go with whatever result we get regardless ?

I think you must be the only Brexiteer on here who is happy with any solution as long as we leave the EU. I think every other leaver has stated a preference on the type of deal.

 

[Baldseagull]

Brexit: David Davis calls for cabinet rebellion over PM's plan

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45853384

Cowardly sat on the outside lobbing grenades in.

Classy. Particularly like the criticism of agreeing a backstop position in December, when he was Brexit Secretary, and claiming it was a non binding throwaway promise, just said to move on to the next phase, without realising what had just been conceded.

 

[Two Professors]

How the hell is that referendum going to help the country.
First time around the majority of leave voters were so ignorant that they understood none of the implications of leaving bar immigration and 'i don't like the EU let's get out , I saw it in Facebook'.
This time we are asking the same mongs, of which there are millions, to make another important choice when they won't know fuk all about the leave deal either.
Our only hope is that on voting day the leave voters decide to have a duvet day, eating pizza, taking drugs and getting pissed and letting the far more informed, smarter, intelligent and sober remain voter make the right (Hobson's) choice.

Duvet day,eating pizza,taking drugs,getting pissed?Sounds like the youth vote who didn't bother last time,and certainly won't bother on any other vote,innit.As for the 'far more informed,smarter,intelligent and sober remain voter',I presume you are referring to yourself?What a chopper!

 

[Two Professors]

Well, as we all know that won't happen, you are happy to go with whatever result we get regardless ?

I think you must be the only Brexiteer on here who is happy with any solution as long as we leave the EU. I think every other leaver has stated a preference on the type of deal.

Tit.

As long as we leave the cesspit,most of us couldn't give a toss about the deal.

 

[pastafarian]

You do know though that we only get the transition period for certain if there is a broad agreement on what we will transition to, if we end up saying stuff any deal and any "divorce payments", I suspect the EU would want to start collecting import tariffs on British sales into the EU sooner rather than later.
There should be a good indication of what our future trading arrangements will be before we exit, as this is looking impossible to achieve, with groups on both sides prepared to block an agreement that is either too soft or too hard, to get anything other than no deal by accident, a second vote looks more likely than ever to me.

Um, of course i know that, the transition/implementation is part of the withdrawal agreement text. and the broad agreement of what we will transition into is part of the future relationship framework proposal.
No deal, No implementation period. Fairly sure most people realise this.
Doesnt change the fact the future relationship with regards to trade ( if there is an agreement) will only be a framework indication of trade and not a concluded trade deal. Stands to reason this then would be open to speculation. The economy and trade is the backbone of remainers argument to stay in,why would they want to vote on something open to speculation and in its unconcluded state. Wouldnt it be better to wait until the trade deal is concluded and then vote whether to accept it or not.

Well, as we all know that won't happen, you are happy to go with whatever result we get regardless ?

I think you must be the only Brexiteer on here who is happy with any solution as long as we leave the EU. I think every other leaver has stated a preference on the type of deal.

We all know an agreement wont happen by the end of march 2019 do we? You speak for all remainers and leavers now then on this issue? Bit arrogant of you.
You certainly dont speak for me.

 

[Baldseagull]

Um, of course i know that, the transition/implementation is part of the withdrawal agreement text. and the broad agreement of what we will transition into is part of the future relationship framework proposal.
No deal, No implementation period. Fairly sure most people realise this.
Doesnt change the fact the future relationship with regards to trade ( if there is an agreement) will only be a framework indication of trade and not a concluded trade deal. Stands to reason this then would be open to speculation. The economy and trade is the backbone of remainers argument to stay in,why would they want to vote on something open to speculation and in its unconcluded state. Wouldnt it be better to wait until the trade deal is concluded and then vote whether to accept it or not.



We all know an agreement wont happen by the end of march 2019 do we? You speak for all remainers and leavers now then on this issue? Bit arrogant of you.
You certainly dont speak for me.

Well as you know that, would you stop pretending that a second referendum before we leave, will be just as blind as the first one was?

 

[pastafarian]

Well as you know that, would you stop pretending that a second referendum before we leave, will be just as blind as the first one was?

A second referendum will be blind as to a concluded trade deal, but going by past conversations on here where people didnt know a trade deal comes after we leave, and remainers still moaning now that Liam Fox saying an EU free trade deal after brexit should be "the easiest in history" (when trade talks cant be concluded until after we leave and wont really begin in ernest before we leave) im not sure many remainers realise the process that is going on.