[Politics] Brexit

[clapham_gull]

Lot of posturing going on between both sides. My feeling is that there will be some sort of deal, although not Chequers.

My preference.... a deal that respects the wishes of 17.4 m people. Out of single market and out of customs union, free to strike up our own trade deals. Keeping in a customs union/the single market is neither in nor out and 17.4m people didn't vote leave to be neither in or out.

Remainers on here have to accept that there isn't going to be a 'peoples vote' we've already had one, and nor is there going to be an imminent general election, the PM has made that perfectly clear. So lets just get on with it and get the best deal for us and the EU.

I agree with most of that, but the stark reality in my industry is the future looks very complicated. From the customers point of view nothing will change, but unless something is sorted many companies will simply shift their operations abroad. Not out of panic, it just makes perfect sense to move your HQ to either Dublin or the Netherlands like Netflix.

If the majority (or all) of your customers are in the EU why would you build your HQ in London ? - Doesn't make sense.

Technology has made it feasible, Brexit gives you a very good reason.

It's a shame because London is currently the European leader in what it does and employs a hell of a lot of people.

 

[clapham_gull]

Photographer, why?

Just reacting to your "bed wetters" comment. Depends what you do and who you work for.

The concerns I've relayed are perfectly genuine and other governments within in the EU are currently and actively going after certain business sectors.

That's my point. Most discussion has been around the effect on UK businesses and 1) How they continue to trade with the EU 2) What opportunities are there outside ?

That complete ignores the numerous media companies from abroad who have planted themselves in the UK as a base to trade with the rest of the EU.

The government are particularly concerned about it too, since it quite obviously makes little sense for them to stay here long term. If you want need a European base (and the UK constitutes just a part of your market) why on earth would you pick the UK ?

I genuinely think there will be winners and losers, but you cannot deny that the UK will change significantly. To dismiss those who are concerned as "bed wetters" is frankly pathetic especially as there is a very long list of issues in many industries that the government simply haven't got round to looking at. Unlike the government, many multinational companies in a position to do so won't fanny around.

They will be looking 2 years ahead and if they don't know what that looks like they will jump ship to an existing base in the EU and use a "non brexit" excuse to do so. Unfortunately it's already happening.

 

[The Clamp]

You've just said it, what do you know. Probably nothing more than anyone else.

You’re confident tonight. It’s very attractive.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Lot of posturing going on between both sides. My feeling is that there will be some sort of deal, although not Chequers.

My preference.... a deal that respects the wishes of 17.4 m people. Out of single market and out of customs union, free to strike up our own trade deals. Keeping in a customs union/the single market is neither in nor out and 17.4m people didn't vote leave to be neither in or out.

Remainers on here have to accept that there isn't going to be a 'peoples vote' we've already had one, and nor is there going to be an imminent general election, the PM has made that perfectly clear. So lets just get on with it and get the best deal for us and the EU.

Makes complete sense to me.

 

[nicko31]

Illuminating contribution. Building on that, which of Canada +, Chequers and no-deal do you feel is most likely, and which would you prefer?

So what is the will of the people?

Canada +
Chequers
Norway
No Deal

 

[nicko31]

Some people don’t want more out of life than a pint and a pop down the shopping parade to pick up the curry. Screw anyone who wants a bit more from life, eh!

The question is after Brexit (assuming it goes ahead), who can they blame for their mediocre lives Guess it will be back to the immigrants and war on benefit scroungers

 

[BrickTamland]

you're British ?


regards
DR

Yes?

 

[Simster]

Not really surprising that it makes sense to you, [MENTION=22389]bashlsdir[/MENTION], but to everyone else it's just bluster.

First of all, there was nothing on the ballot paper that said we shouldn't stay inside the customs Union or single market. If it was, Brexiteers like [MENTION=25]Gwylan[/MENTION] on here probably wouldn't have voted leave.

Secondly, [MENTION=1694]shingle[/MENTION]'s post sounds like nothing but his own personal wish list. Fine, but at least be honest about it rather than wrapping it up with all that "respect the wishes of 17.2m people" nonsense.

And finally, there is absolutely no recognition that this wish list is near impossible owing to the problem with the Irish border amongst other things.

What I find frustrating is that for some of you leavers, there appears to be no answers to the big problems beyond "no deal".

 

[Gwylan]

First of all, there was nothing on the ballot paper that said we shouldn't stay inside the customs Union or single market. If it was, Brexiteers like [MENTION=25]Gwylan[/MENTION] on here probably wouldn't have voted leave.

Quite. And I'd have been happy to accept freedom of movement too. I can't speak for all Brexiteers as there were manifold reasons to vote leave, but the idea that 17m voted for 'no deal' and complete disruption of our economy seems to me to be complete nonsense.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

I can see why the bunkum and bluster of Boris appeals to (some) folk. There's always a few moments in his speeches where he dispenses with the gags and narrows his lips and looks totally sincere (I think he might well be sincere at these moments in a kind of self-delusional fashion) and hits the 'big shots' - the 'nation', 'freedom', 'history, 'constitution' etc. Then there's the cheaper shots on Corbyn ('string vests') and the EU (oblique reference to the drinking problems of one of its key players).Throw in the odd Latin phrase and/or some obscure historical reference that only fellow public schoolboys really understand and you get something that many people would think is charisma.

And of course the contrast with Mrs May couldn't be more stark: cautious, poor body language, not a 'connector' and a kind of Thatcher-lite (very lite). But Boris doesn't do detail. He's a 'vision guy', the vision being distorted through the lens of ambition and ego.

I think that May has so far come through the conference relatively unscathed. But today with be the test. I hope she has her Strepsils ready this time...……………...

 

[beorhthelm]

I agree with most of that, but the stark reality in my industry is the future looks very complicated. From the customers point of view nothing will change, but unless something is sorted many companies will simply shift their operations abroad. Not out of panic, it just makes perfect sense to move your HQ to either Dublin or the Netherlands like Netflix.

If the majority (or all) of your customers are in the EU why would you build your HQ in London ? - Doesn't make sense.

Technology has made it feasible, Brexit gives you a very good reason.

It's a shame because London is currently the European leader in what it does and employs a hell of a lot of people.

just to note there is a couple of good reasons: tax, regulatory structures (may be beneficial to be outside the EU), local pool of talent, proximity to other services. much is made of location of HQ for political reasons, it practical and economic terms doesn't matter much these days, and less so with modern IT. example my company's european HQ is official in Switzerland, however all the management are in London. there's quite a list of companies that are "officially" based in the UK when this or even Europe is not their singular major market.

i've been following this sub-thread about media, quite interesting as wasnt aware UK quite so dominant in the sector. i wonder how licensing is technically implemented, as broadcasting is pretty much uncontrollable once in the air, does the license come into effect in access to transmitters or satellite uplinks, or at satellites themselves? what prevents unlicensed transmissions, say from Turkey or Russia?

 

[Chicken Run]

Quite. And I'd have been happy to accept freedom of movement too. I can't speak for all Brexiteers as there were manifold reasons to vote leave, but the idea that 17m voted for 'no deal' and complete disruption of our economy seems to me to be complete nonsense.

Did anyone who voted leave seriously think that the divorce wouldn’t wreck the economy for an initial period?

It was never going to be plane sailing but as Lord Sugar said yesterday on GMB, the Europeans need this work, the UK are customers too!

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I can see why the bunkum and bluster of Boris appeals to (some) folk. There's always a few moments in his speeches where he dispenses with the gags and narrows his lips and looks totally sincere (I think he might well be sincere at these moments in a kind of self-delusional fashion) and hits the 'big shots' - the 'nation', 'freedom', 'history, 'constitution' etc. Then there's the cheaper shots on Corbyn ('string vests') and the EU (oblique reference to the drinking problems of one of its key players).Throw in the odd Latin phrase and/or some obscure historical reference that only fellow public schoolboys really understand and you get something that many people would think is charisma.

And of course the contrast with Mrs May couldn't be more stark: cautious, poor body language, not a 'connector' and a kind of Thatcher-lite (very lite). But Boris doesn't do detail. He's a 'vision guy', the vision being distorted through the lens of ambition and ego.

I think that May has so far come through the conference relatively unscathed. But today with be the test. I hope she has her Strepsils ready this time...……………...

Love or loathe her I think it's a bit rough on Thatcher to make a comparison between her and May. May is just a grey robot - nothing personable about her at all. Cold and distant. You only need to watch some of her interviews and she comes across as just reading words - no debate, no fire in the belly, no personailty. By far the worst PM this country has had in the last 40 years, possibly longer.

 

[nicko31]

Did anyone who voted leave seriously think that the divorce wouldn’t wreck the economy for an initial period?

It was never going to be plane sailing but as Lord Sugar said yesterday on GMB, the Europeans need this work, the UK are customers too!

NSC Brexiteer GOLD....

So all leavers voted LEAVE knowing the economy would be wrecked? I've heard it all now.

Is that your only response now you realise the lies cannot be delivered?

What form of Brexit is the will of the people?

 

[The Clamp]

May seems to think she can channel Thatcher by merely repeating poor facsimiles of Thatcher’s famous lines . All that “I’m a difficult woman” crap.
Rightly or wrongly Thatcher meant it and so people believed in her. Nobody believes May because she doesn’t believe it herself.

 

[The Clamp]

Did anyone who voted leave seriously think that the divorce wouldn’t wreck the economy for an initial period?

It was never going to be plane sailing but as Lord Sugar said yesterday on GMB, the Europeans need this work, the UK are customers too!

Nobody believes that. Including you.

 

[Simster]

Love or loathe her I think it's a bit rough on Thatcher to make a comparison between her and May. May is just a grey robot - nothing personable about her at all. Cold and distant. You only need to watch some of her interviews and she comes across as just reading words - no debate, no fire in the belly, no personailty. By far the worst PM this country has had in the last 40 years, possibly longer.

The indirect comparison between Thatcher and Johnson is unfair too. Both are/were good orators, but that's where the similarities end. Thatcher always saw through the courage of her convictions - her soundbites were always backed up with policy. You didn't have to agree with her, but when she went to war with the miners unions, she saw it through. When she talked about the Falklands, she backed it up with action. She never hid. Johnson, on the other hand, is the opposite - he fills his speeches with soundbites, none of which bear any reality to his actions. His actions reek of incompetence, arrogance and selfishness - whether it's harming a British national languishing in an Iranian prison, letting down his Ruislip constituents by running away from the Heathrow vote, or letting down the whole country by flouncing off over Brexit rather than rolling up his sleeves to try and find a solution to Brexit problems. I honestly think he's the worst politician I can remember and it ought to be a total embarrassment to the Tories that he's anywhere near their front benches.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The indirect comparison between Thatcher and Johnson is unfair too. Both are/were good orators, but that's where the similarities end. Thatcher always saw through the courage of her convictions - her soundbites were always backed up with policy. You didn't have to agree with her, but when she went to war with the miners unions, she saw it through. When she talked about the Falklands, she backed it up with action. She never hid. Johnson, on the other hand, is the opposite. Fills his speeches with soundbites, none of which bear any reality with his actions. He actions reek incompetence, arrogance and selfishness - whether it's harming a British national languishing in an Iranian prison, letting down his Ruislip constituents by running away from the Heathrow vote, or letting down the whole country by flouncing off over Brexit rather than rolling up his sleeves to try and find a solution to Brexit problems. I honestly think he's the worst politician I can remember and it ought to be a total embarrassment that he's anywhere near the Tory front benches.

And then there’s his personal life: numerous affairs, failing to clear press positions with the cabinet, failing to declare stuff to the US IRS etc etc.

 

[Simster]

And then there’s his personal life: numerous affairs, failing to clear press positions with the cabinet, failing to declare stuff to the US IRS etc etc.

I don't really care that much about his affairs - plenty of people feel the need to do that unfortunately, and it is a matter for them and their other halves. But everything else - well he's just absolutely dreadful. Another thing - referring to black people as "piccaninnies" and talking about "watermelon smiles".

I mean he's just an absolute shambles.

 

[shingle]

Just reacting to your "bed wetters" comment. Depends what you do and who you work for.

The concerns I've relayed are perfectly genuine and other governments within in the EU are currently and actively going after certain business sectors.

That's my point. Most discussion has been around the effect on UK businesses and 1) How they continue to trade with the EU 2) What opportunities are there outside ?

That complete ignores the numerous media companies from abroad who have planted themselves in the UK as a base to trade with the rest of the EU.

The government are particularly concerned about it too, since it quite obviously makes little sense for them to stay here long term. If you want need a European base (and the UK constitutes just a part of your market) why on earth would you pick the UK ?

I genuinely think there will be winners and losers, but you cannot deny that the UK will change significantly. To dismiss those who are concerned as "bed wetters" is frankly pathetic especially as there is a very long list of issues in many industries that the government simply haven't got round to looking at. Unlike the government, many multinational companies in a position to do so won't fanny around.

They will be looking 2 years ahead and if they don't know what that looks like they will jump ship to an existing base in the EU and use a "non brexit" excuse to do so. Unfortunately it's already happening.

My bedwetters comment wasn't directed at people with reasonable concerns about jobs and the industries that they work in, but more at the merchants of doom making wild and ridiculous predictions, and BrickTamland being advised yesterday to seek Swedish citizenship cos Britain is now damaged goods.