[Politics] Brexit

[pastafarian]

Yes - 90% agreed as Simon Coveney said, but that 10% just leaves the whole matter of Northern Ireland and the backstop and the frosty meeting yesterday morning between Varadkar and May suggests your confidence is a little premature. (Though I'm sure being premature is quite common for you)

To avoid no deal then and reach a withdrawal agreement and then a transitional period, which is basically EEA membership and the length of future relationship talks alone, coupled with the fact we have no infrastructure in place yet for an FTA which wouldn't solve Northern Ireland anyway, let alone be properly ready for no deal anytime soon, will dictate that it'll need to be far longer than just to 2020. First though we need to solve a problem like Northern Ireland. What's your preference as to a solution?

A. Full UK alignment.
B. Internal UK border.

Both are going to prove to be most unpalatable to many in Westminster too and will require a climb down, eg Rees-Mogg amendment for one. Or do you have confidence an alternative, as yet to be identified, solution will be found?

As i said im confident the withdrawal treaty will be concluded.The withdrawal is yes concerned with the Irish backstop, the future relationship with Irish customs. I can forsee heads cracking together and resolving the last 10% of the withdrawal treaty

 

[pastafarian]

What's your preference as to a solution?

A. Full UK alignment.
B. Internal UK border.

I know no British government would allow an internal UK border to disrupt our own union......it simply is too ridiculous to contemplate.
Would you agree on that or is it something a Corbyn government and its followers would cave in on

 

[bha100]

Its a daft post i agree, Article 50 will inform anyone we can be excluded from talks and meetings legally, five to one though is a bit strong considering the clamp posts that there are only four of us left on here......i dont think you are listening to your leader very hard

Correct answer, congratulations

 

[WATFORD zero]

Talking of simple questions where did I introduce 'The European Union (Withdrawal) Act' into the conversation,you keep deflecting

Well, let's have a little look at the conversation and see where it was deflected

You're going round in circles

So, to be clear then, what do think we should do, WTO no deal or TM's plan ?

It's fairly simple, Which do you want ?

To be clear, i am one of those people that understands the negotiations are still ongoing.
Seems daft for you to be offering an either or option now before they have concluded.Much can happen yet.

So, come on the pasta, straight question - What exactly do you want from Brexit ?

No Deal
TM's chequers plan
(NI Border ? A Customs Union ? Norway ?)

*edit* I don't think I have to be Mystic Meg to predict what is coming

That's right, you have answered when I asked chequers or no deal

To be clear, i am one of those people that understands the negotiations are still ongoing.
Seems daft for you to be offering an either or option now before they have concluded.Much can happen yet.

Or rather you didn't. 2 and a bit years on, you still can't make up your mind as to what you want between the two extremes

That’s right I did answer.
Not sure how it was possible to consider the chequers policy 2 years ago, did you not realise it is quite a new release.

Why do you omit the article 50 withdrawal “deal” option from your question? Is it because it is still ongoing.

Because you still not knowing what you wanted was 4 weeks ago, long after the chequers plan was announced

https://nortr3nixy.nimpr.uk/showthread.php?343854-BrExit-the-countdown-to-11PM-GMT-on-Friday-29th-of-March-2019&p=8568207&viewfull=1#post8568207

So, which do you want

Chequers
No Deal
Withdraw article 50 ?

Why have you omitted the withdrawal agreement "deal" ?

Is this 'Withdraw article 50' or something else you've made up.

And I take it we can now agree that 4 weeks ago you didn't know what you wanted ?

The withdrawal agreement......you know that thing that has been ongoing since Article 50 was handed in, that thing that is 80% completed, that thing that the European Parliament and our parliament will vote on........why do you omit it from your question

Because that IS the chequers plan that is 80% completed

This is getting beyond ridiculous

You plank,as i suspected you have got yourself all in a muddle-yet again

There are two ongoing deals.
1/ The withdrawal agreement deal(80% completed)
2/ The future relationship deal

The chequers policy is not the withdrawal agreement, it is a separate entity and addresses the future relationship.
Have a look at the official title of the chequers proposal........should give you a big clue.

Good one, you caught me out, you little tinker

2 and a bit years later, and you still don't know what you want then

(I've given you a little hint). I even congratulated you on your deflectionary tactic

 

[WATFORD zero]

excellent, you continue to show your own gullibility via stupidity. Genius.

Are you referring to how you disappeared after posting that and then came back weeks later with 'Of course, I mocked up that screen ?'

Maybe another one of your last minute trips abroad

 

[ManOfSussex]

I know no British government would allow an internal UK border to disrupt our own union......it simply is too ridiculous to contemplate.
Would you agree on that or is it something a Corbyn government and its followers would cave in on

I agree with you. It's what The EU are effectively suggesting though. Corbyn rejected the idea yesterday in an interview too.

When a few posters on here got excited about headlines in regards to Barnier earlier in the week saying there were technological solutions to the Irish issue, Simon Coveney was saying at the same time that these solutions would only help on a east/west basis and Fine Gael know that there isn't going to be an internal UK border. The ERG's proposals are non-starters and if there's not going to be Full UK alignment, I struggle to see how this Catch 22 situation is going to be resolved in the absence of a rabbit being pulled out of a hat.

 

[Two Professors]

Am still awaiting the 2 Profs 'Greatest Hits Album' - probably to be released in time for Christmas!

No,it will be coming out on the 29th of March 2019,with a very catchy title,'Crying over EU.' Here is a preview of the cover:





With lots of these as they appear to annoy humourless remoaners

 

[WATFORD zero]

No,it will be coming out on the 29th of March 2019,with a very catchy title,'Crying over EU.' Here is a preview of the cover:


View attachment 100721


With lots of these as they appear to annoy humourless remoaners

You've taken to quoting posters again instead of posting Jpegs of their posts

The Internet Goblins will probably get you now

 

[WATFORD zero]

And you are so predictable, I've prepared a jpeg for you to keep you safe

 

[Two Professors]

You've taken to quoting posters again instead of posting Jpegs of their posts

The Internet Goblins will probably get you now

Tit.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Christ the papers are bad for May today. Its all blame from the Brexiteers side, pointing fingers at May, to the Sun with their editorial totally blaming the EU. The child-like tantrum in that editorial is marvellous "How can we possibly want to stay in an institution that's so beastly to us when we want to leave?" whilst flinging around Al Capone and Mafia references to all and sundry in Europe.

So I suppose its possible that Johnson and his cronies will actually step up and take control of this process at last, like they should have done two years ago, but I'm not holding my breath. Clearly their strategy is to let us crash out in humiliation and pain, point fingers at everyone and ride in like white knights to 'save us'. Self-serving tw*ts.

So, are there any adults in the room who have a solution to the NI border issue? Or at least, not a solution, but an actual indication of what could happen

1. Regulatory alignment in NI with the EU and invisible border down the Irish sea. Clearly not happening, crosses too many red lines for us, EU preferred option
2. Regulatory alignment in goods between UK and the EU. Not happening, EU won't budge, probably would get voted down in parliament.
3. Invisible border within both countries where goods get checked. Seems improbable from a practical standpoint, as there is essentially no control on what crosses the border why would anyone bother voluntarily going to a checkpoint, won't be acceptable to the EU as all kinds of things could be taken over the border with no ability to do random checks at all. Basically a pretend border where we can send anything we like over to the EU and darn their rules.
4. An actual border which goes against the Good Friday agreement and the desires of the vast majority of people of the island.

If we crash out to no deal then (4) is the inevitable default, but as neither side wants to do it - we don't really care and they won't want to breach the peace deal - do we just end up in a border in name only? How will the EU police it? Puts Ireland in an awkward situation as they won't want to create a border, but equally won't want a border created between them and the rest of the EU. So is (3) the compromise that will eventually be chosen? I can foresee in the future all kinds of stuff making its way over that border and eventually the EU getting so pissed off they slam it shut.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

5. A referendum on unification in NI. If the people answer yes (and I have seen polls which suggest they might) the problem is dealt with. The Tory Party will have to change its name though. And Brexiteers will have to accept that it was they who precipitated the break up of the United Kingdom. And NI will have to brace itself for some extra Troubles. But at least we will be getting our country back. Well some of it.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Well this Ireland,Northern Ireland problem came right out of the blue, didn't it. Shirley no one could have seen that coming

(Awaits certain posters to say the problem would be resolved if Boris was in charge instead of TM )

 

[Two Professors]

I proposed a solution for the tinpot republic some while ago,that they should rejoin the United Kingdom,problem solved.I give it a month before their economy goes down the toilet in a no-deal brexit.Leo won't be the 'Laughing Gnome' then,when his exports are stuck in British customs.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

No,it will be coming out on the 29th of March 2019,with a very catchy title,'Crying over EU.' Here is a preview of the cover:


View attachment 100721


With lots of these as they appear to annoy humourless remoaners

Brexit totally and utterly defines you doesn’t it? You’d be nothing without it. It’s your one and only moment in life to get a little bit of attention and be heard. Enjoy it whilst it lasts.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Well this Ireland,Northern Ireland problem came right out of the blue, didn't it. Shirley no one could have seen that coming

(Awaits certain posters to say the problem would be resolved if Boris was in charge instead of TM )

The irony is that I spent a lot of time arguing issues and predictions in the lead up to the referendum, and yet this NI border thing has indeed come out of the blue for me, I don't recall it being debated at all in the lead-up to the vote.Indeed the intractability of the NI border is one of the 'new' things on the table that makes me believe a second referendum is warranted.

As for Boris and chums, of course they don't really care about the border, and in many ways it isn't our problem but the EU's. We are going to lower regulations on imports from outside the EU, whether its chickens from the US or palm oil from Malaysia, and so its the EU thats going to want to prevent them coming over the border from us, whereas we don't really care what comes the other way. So for them lot that want a hard Brexit, they can let the border become a firm border but not actually go and build any infrastructure because it doesn't matter to them

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Brexit totally and utterly defines you doesn’t it? You’d be nothing without it. It’s your one and only moment in life to get a little bit of attention and be heard. Enjoy it whilst it lasts.

We have to be honest, the EU hasn't won many supporters after the latest rejection. The core of the problem is with the EU unable to reform, unable to listen. We probably wouldn't be here if Cameron came back with something worthwhile.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

I proposed a solution for the tinpot republic some while ago,that they should rejoin the United Kingdom,problem solved.I give it a month before their economy goes down the toilet in a no-deal brexit.Leo won't be the 'Laughing Gnome' then,when his exports are stuck in British customs.

Brilliant. Your solution to the Northern Ireland problem - so very sensitive and politically difficult, in times of fragile peace after years of violent conflict - is for the UK to annex the Republic?

Bravo.

 

[DIFFBROOK]

I think we can see from 2P that hard brexiteers do not give a toss whether there is a hard border - in fact I think they would quite like one. They probably couldn't care less about the "Good Friday Agreement" and the subsequent years of peace that Island has had.

It goes with the mantra of don't care about the economy, as long as they get their blue passports.

The irony is that I spent a lot of time arguing issues and predictions in the lead up to the referendum, and yet this NI border thing has indeed come out of the blue for me, I don't recall it being debated at all in the lead-up to the vote.Indeed the intractability of the NI border is one of the 'new' things on the table that makes me believe a second referendum is warranted.

As for Boris and chums, of course they don't really care about the border, and in many ways it isn't our problem but the EU's. We are going to lower regulations on imports from outside the EU, whether its chickens from the US or palm oil from Malaysia, and so its the EU thats going to want to prevent them coming over the border from us, whereas we don't really care what comes the other way. So for them lot that want a hard Brexit, they can let the border become a firm border but not actually go and build any infrastructure because it doesn't matter to them

 

[Two Professors]

Brilliant. Your solution to the Northern Ireland problem - so very sensitive and politically difficult, in times of fragile peace after years of violent conflict - is for the UK to annex the Republic?

Bravo.

My position has advanced somewhat from when I served there in the 1970's.Thermo-nuclear weapons are too much of a final solution to the intractability of the Irish,North and South.Annex them?Good God,no.We are geographically linked,as so many Europhiles delighted in pointing out,so they could just join us in a fairly informal,bi-lateral,trading alliance.I understand bi-lateral deals are allowed by the EU,so what's the problem,why the constant hostility?