[Politics] Brexit

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

He also thinks that we can implement WTO rules and tariffs with no borders or customs and that if a Brexiteer had been in charge instead of TM, the EU would have let us cherry pick far more and we would have got the elusive 'magic deal'

He does have a remarkable ability to read a post, miss the point completely and then cut and paste erroneous waffle that he has found on google.

There seems to be a general misunderstanding of life under WTO rules; I have to observe that most of this misunderstanding comes from those who want us to migrate to these under the flag of great opportunities. But in effect and in simple terms all we are doing is swapping one rule based trading arrangement (the EU's) with another (the WTO's). Now some folk might prefer the former (I'm one of them) while others prefer the latter. But the idea that we can be some sort of buccaneering nation sorting out deals with all sorts of trading partners on a bi-lateral basis after Brexit is something of a fiction, attractive as that might be (to some).

And as a sting in the tail, as I understand it, WTO rules will enforce a hard border in Northern Ireland, not the EU.

The WTO writes

" Most-favoured-nation (MFN): treating other people equally Under the WTO agreements, countries cannot normally discriminate between their trading partners. Grant someone a special favour (such as a lower customs duty rate for one of their products) and you have to do the same for all other WTO members.

Some exceptions are allowed. For example, countries can set up a free trade agreement that applies only to goods traded within the group — discriminating against goods from outside. Or they can give developing countries special access to their markets. Or a country can raise barriers against products that are considered to be traded unfairly from specific countries. And in services, countries are allowed, in limited circumstances, to discriminate. But the agreements only permit these exceptions under strict conditions. In general, MFN means that every time a country lowers a trade barrier or opens up a market, it has to do so for the same goods or services from all its trading partners — whether rich or poor, weak or strong."

 

[larus]

Goodness me. You think that the countries involved could not make up that money for a one off hit? Give your head a wobble.

You really don’t understand much do you? How much has GDP got to do with contributions to the EU budget. Most countries in the EU are net beneficiaries from the EU - they get more out than they put in. They are already squealing about the changes that the EU is going to have to make due to the loss of the UK contribution. The loss of £39bln is a huge loss to them.

Do yourself a favour. Do some research on the EU net contributions from each of the 27 countries.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Nah,bullying,thank goodness we’re the first to be jumping.
On our way.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

This one amused me. Wants to go 'no deal' because he thinks the EU are 'bullying us'

Well there's certainly no bullies in the WTO, No siree

 

[WATFORD zero]

You really don’t understand much do you? How much has GDP got to do with contributions to the EU budget. Most countries in the EU are net beneficiaries from the EU - they get more out than they put in. They are already squealing about the changes that the EU is going to have to make due to the loss of the UK contribution. The loss of £39bln is a huge loss to them.

Do yourself a favour. Do some research on the EU net contributions from each of the 27 countries.

Here we go again

 

[ManOfSussex]

He also thinks that we can implement WTO rules and tariffs with no borders or customs and that if a Brexiteer had been in charge instead of TM, the EU would have let us cherry pick far more and we would have got the elusive 'magic deal'

He does have a remarkable ability to read a post, miss the point completely and then cut and paste erroneous waffle that he has found on google.

I think it would be really helpful though that rather than cut and paste things written by oddball columnists in The Daily Telegraph, he could allay the concerns of The FTA, The RHA, Kent County Council, Kent Police, the former leader of UKIP Henry Bolton, the Dover MP Charlie Elphicke who wrote a detailed report over a year ago on the infrastructure that's required in Kent post Brexit, HMRC, UKBF and countless others who actually know what they're talking about and tell them that they're really worrying over nothing.

 

[Two Professors]

I think it would be really helpful though that rather than cut and paste things written by oddball columnists in The Daily Telegraph, he could allay the concerns of The FTA, The RHA, Kent County Council, Kent Police, the former leader of UKIP Henry Bolton, the Dover MP Charlie Elphicke who wrote a detailed report over a year ago on the infrastructure that's required in Kent post Brexit, HMRC, UKBF and countless others who actually know what they're talking about and tell them that they're really worrying over nothing.

Perhaps all those organisations and people could try a bit harder to solve their own problems,especially if they are imaginary,like the following example:

SCARE STORY



And after lots of whining about nothing,how the poor Irish horses couldn't get here after a hard Brexit,they solve their own problem by admitting they have a solution already!

 

[ManOfSussex]

Perhaps all those organisations and people could try a bit harder to solve their own problems,especially if they are imaginary,like the following example:

SCARE STORY

View attachment 100099

And after lots of whining about nothing,how the poor Irish horses couldn't get here after a hard Brexit,they solve their own problem by admitting they have a solution already!

View attachment 100100

Where and when are the roads and customs infrastructures and improvements required being built in Kent then?

Also, how does The BHA's procedures on horses outside the Tripartite Agreement system work out of interest?

 

[WATFORD zero]

Where and when are the roads and customs infrastructures and improvements required being built in Kent then?

Also, how does The BHA's procedures on horses outside the Tripartite Agreement system work out of interest?

Now he'll have to go and create more jpegs to answer your question

(But at least the Internet goblins can't get him if he doesn't post links to the actual story )

 

[larus]

View attachment 100098

Here we go again

Deflection, deflection again.

Who is responsible for the monitoring of ROI imports from NI if we leave with a No Deal and fall back onto WTO rules?

Let me give you a clue, it’s 2 letters, starts with E and ends with U.

How will the ROI/EU be compliant with WTO rules if they don’t have any infrastructure to monitor their imports?

This is the point you continually go on about the UK and WTO rules and No Border. So please enlightened one, explain how the EU won’t be in breach of WTO rules, if you are saying that we will be.

The UK is not responsible for the EU border - we will be a third-party.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Deflection, deflection again.

Who is responsible for the monitoring of ROI imports from NI if we leave with a No Deal and fall back onto WTO rules?

Let me give you a clue, it’s 2 letters, starts with E and ends with U.

How will the ROI/EU be compliant with WTO rules if they don’t have any infrastructure to monitor their imports?

This is the point you continually go on about the UK and WTO rules and No Border. So please enlightened one, explain how the EU won’t be in breach of WTO rules, if you are saying that we will be.

The UK is not responsible for the EU border - we will be a third-party.

So, you've changed your mind and now think there would be a border ?

 

[Two Professors]

Where and when are the roads and customs infrastructures and improvements required being built in Kent then?

Also, how does The BHA's procedures on horses outside the Tripartite Agreement system work out of interest?

As I no longer live in Kent I have no idea.They have had ample time to plan for any eventuality,what KCC are actually paid to do.Even when we lived there thirty years ago,the various French unions,fishing,farming and transport,frequently caused problems,so it's hardly a new scenario.There are plenty of lorry parks around Calais for the backed up traffic which would mainly be on their side of the Channel.Remainers have taken great delight in telling us how much the EU export to us,so it's not just our problem.

 

[Two Professors]

Now he'll have to go and create more jpegs to answer your question

(But at least the Internet goblins can't get him if he doesn't post links to the actual story )

You really are a sad little troll,Pinnochio.Tell us a story,Jackanory.I'm sure Gopher has sent some new messages into your empty head.

 

[Two Professors]

Now he'll have to go and create more jpegs to answer your question

(But at least the Internet goblins can't get him if he doesn't post links to the actual story )

As for internet security,you believe what you want to.If you want to be a dumbass,that's up to you,but don't expect everybody else to be a sheep.

 

[ManOfSussex]

As I no longer live in Kent I have no idea.They have had ample time to plan for any eventuality,what KCC are actually paid to do.Even when we lived there thirty years ago,the various French unions,fishing,farming and transport,frequently caused problems,so it's hardly a new scenario.There are plenty of lorry parks around Calais for the backed up traffic which would mainly be on their side of the Channel.Remainers have taken great delight in telling us how much the EU export to us,so it's not just our problem.

Most of my working life has actually been spent in Kent. I know the place very well too. As Kent County Council don't get paid as much anymore (see austerity) it's going to be tricky and it's very difficult to build things when central Government talk about a 'deal' but don't indicate what the 'deal' will look like or when or if it's to be implemented and key infrastructure decisions don't entirely rest with them, anymore than they do for Pembrokeshire, Hampshire, Lincolnshire, Suffolk etc who will also be affected by the wonders of Brexit. I'm sure all the road improvements and lorry parks will get built somewhere eventually in Kent, after the funding is provided and all the planning arguments and Nimbys have their say. I wonder if it'll all happen before, during or after the Lower Thames Crossing ever gets built? Most people who have an opinion on that think 2027 is very optimistic, but we'll see.

Still, at least Operation Brock is now afoot for next year and the people of Kent can look forward to that being a part of their daily life for the foreseeable future. As the Phase 4 disruption of Operation Stack in 2015 cost the British economy £250M a day, I hope it doesn't go on too long.

 

[Two Professors]

Most of my working life has actually been spent in Kent. I know the place very well too. As Kent County Council don't get paid as much anymore (see austerity) it's going to be tricky and it's very difficult to build things when central Government talk about a 'deal' but don't indicate what the 'deal' will look like or when or if it's to be implemented and key infrastructure decisions don't entirely rest with them, anymore than they do for Pembrokeshire, Hampshire, Lincolnshire, Suffolk etc who will also be affected by the wonders of Brexit. I'm sure all the road improvements and lorry parks will get built somewhere eventually in Kent, after the funding is provided and all the planning arguments and Nimbys have their say. I wonder if it'll all happen before, during or after the Lower Thames Crossing ever gets built? Most people who have an opinion on that think 2027 is very optimistic, but we'll see.

Still, at least Operation Brock is now afoot for next year and the people of Kent can look forward to that being a part of their daily life for the foreseeable future. As the Phase 4 disruption of Operation Stack in 2015 cost the British economy £250M a day, I hope it doesn't go on too long.

As the Chief Executives of all major councils in the county,and of the county council,all get paid more than the Prime Minister,one would hope they do a better job and have all their plans in place.They have plans in place to survive a nuclear war,and even Gideon's best efforts haven't convinced anybody of a holocaust!

 

[larus]

So, you've changed your mind and now think there would be a border ?

OMG, are you really thick, or just practice really hard.

Of course there is a border. It’s a country boundary, even you know that (well, I assume you do anyway, but some things don’t surprise me with you).

So, next it comes down to the controls on the border for traffic. Is it an open border or does is have physical infrastructure?

Are you still with me? Come on cupcake, concentrate really hard.

Each side is responsible for controlling the incoming traffic to its country. So, we have to control ours and the EU has to control theirs.

If there is no deal, then the UK and EU will be trading on WTO rules. Therefore, they have to control/monitor their imports from the UK the same as we have to from the EU.

However, (as I keep trying to help you with this point) WTO rules allow for no physical infrastructure on a border if there a political reasons not to. And the EU has already told the ROI that there will not be physical infrastructure required.

Please try to understand the above first, and then answer the questions as to why you think the UK will be in breach of WTO rules but the EU won’t.

 

[The Clamp]

As the Chief Executives of all major councils in the county,and of the county council,all get paid more than the Prime Minister,one would hope they do a better job and have all their plans in place.They have plans in place to survive a nuclear war,and even Gideon's best efforts haven't convinced anybody of a holocaust!

Brilliant. Just ignore all the very likely scenarios put forward by MoS, a man with experience in the matter and a fair bit of knowledge , and hope they have it all in hand (on the basis that they get paid more!!!!). This is why nobody takes your mob seriously. Quite the opposite.

cue deflection and personal insults.

 

[portslade seagull]

Most of my working life has actually been spent in Kent. I know the place very well too. As Kent County Council don't get paid as much anymore (see austerity) it's going to be tricky and it's very difficult to build things when central Government talk about a 'deal' but don't indicate what the 'deal' will look like or when or if it's to be implemented and key infrastructure decisions don't entirely rest with them, anymore than they do for Pembrokeshire, Hampshire, Lincolnshire, Suffolk etc who will also be affected by the wonders of Brexit. I'm sure all the road improvements and lorry parks will get built somewhere eventually in Kent, after the funding is provided and all the planning arguments and Nimbys have their say. I wonder if it'll all happen before, during or after the Lower Thames Crossing ever gets built? Most people who have an opinion on that think 2027 is very optimistic, but we'll see.

Still, at least Operation Brock is now afoot for next year and the people of Kent can look forward to that being a part of their daily life for the foreseeable future. As the Phase 4 disruption of Operation Stack in 2015 cost the British economy £250M a day, I hope it doesn't go on too long.

Do you actually believe what you post??

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

'WTO rules allow for no physical infrastructure on a border if there a political reasons not to....'


This is actually a very complex issue. I claim no expertise but I believe that 'learned' opinion is split on this. The 'Most Favoured Nation' principle could be the sticking point - eg if the UK had 'unique' border arrangements with one country (Eire) the matter could be the subject of dispute from other countries who could claim that they are being disadvantaged. I understand (maybe imperfectly) that such a challenge could be brought to the WTO.


The extract below might not prove anything other than that it is indeed a complex issue! It's from a University of Sussex researcher and explores the 'informal' (blind eye) approach to post Brexit trade:

Turning a blind eye would necessitate admitting goods from Ireland tariff-free. The Most Favoured Nation (MFN) principle prohibits the UK from giving special tariff rates to one WTO Member that it does not extend to all of the others. There is an exception for Free Trade Areas, in which tariff barriers are eliminated for substantially all trade. Thus such an arrangement would only be possible as an extension of a zero-tariff UK-EU Free Trade Area; otherwise it would violate WTO MFN obligations.
Another WTO obligation, GATT Article X, would also prove problematic. In the words of the WTO Appellate Body, it ‘establishes certain minimum standards for transparency and procedural fairness in the administration of trade regulations’. It also requires that there ‘uniformity’ in the administration of trade-related regulation. In other words, countries should not treat some goods – or some countries – much differently than others in the administration of customs procedures. There are a dozen or so disputes focusing on this requirement. A light-touch approach applied only on one border could certainly prompt another.
Article 7 of the Trade Facilitation Agreement, which recently entered into force, also obligates each WTO Member to ‘apply common customs procedures and uniform documentation requirements for release and clearance of goods throughout its territory.’

 

[ManOfSussex]

Do you actually believe what you post??

What part of my post that you're referring to is incorrect and why?