[Politics] Brexit

[WATFORD zero]

We should strive to make it fairer! Not just leave it as it is!

Yes we should (and some of us do )

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Education should be free for all, end of.

It is

 

[Lincoln Imp]

From my point of view,it is the EU that will have to consider how to avoid chaos on their ports in Ireland,France,Holland,and Belgium.In a no-deal scenario,if we can only handle for example 250 trucks per day in,that is all that will leave.The remainder,trying to pass through England to the continent,or from the continent to deliver here,will be stuck in the EU.Their problem.

But surely it isn't just their problem given that a very large proportion of EU27 imports to Britain are goods essential to our physical and economic wellbeing - engines for vehicles being assembled here for example. Supply chains would quickly snap if they were marooned in Calais?.

I am trying to be helpful here. People say that Brexiteers aren't considering the consequences of 'No Deal'. It is hard to believe that this can be true, so I am asking one of their number to explain what the consequences are. I asked if you thought we could speed things up at the ports by abolishing tariffs on EU goods. Is that something you favour?

 

[WATFORD zero]

Apart from the bits you PAY FOR!

All pre-school, primary/junior, secondary and further education is free.

You pay for higher education (University), although there are various ways to apply for subsidies.

Why are you shouting ?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Apart from the bits you PAY FOR!

Which are what ?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Do you really not know!? Have you not seen all the students up to their eyeballs in debt from paying fees!?

So your talking about Higher Education. How do you suggest it is funded if those that choose to go don't pay fees ?

 

[WATFORD zero]

You said all education was free! It is blatantly not.
A society requires people with higher education, they should not be charges for it. We ALL need them.

Fine, you think University Education should be free, no need to shout.

I said

Regardless of your view on private education, every child in Britain quite rightly, has a right to a free education and, if they make the most of that opportunity, can get educated to a very good level at no cost. (Whether education funding is sufficient is another argument).

This is their right and then it's up to them (and their parents/guardians/carers) to ensure that they take responsibility and maximise that brilliant opportunity.

I don't think I mentioned or implied further education but if that was what you interpreted it as then maybe I should have made it clearer.

(I didn't partake of further education myself but have employed hundreds who have, so I totally agree that we need people who have gone onto further education, particularly in specialised areas.) It appears that where we disagree is whether this is the Government's or the Individual's responsibility.

*edit* Although, in this situation it seemed that all these people with higher education needed someone who left school at 15 in order to help them contribute to society. Funny old world, isn't it

 

[Deleted member 22389]

So your talking about Higher Education. How do you suggest it is funded if those that choose to go don't pay fees ?

Many years ago when I did my city and guilds in mech engineering we had to pay. The college would have needed the money for the upkeep of machinery and tooling costs.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Many years ago when I did my city and guilds in mech engineering we had to pay. The college would have needed the money for the upkeep of machinery and tooling costs.

That's right.

 

[pastafarian]

Thunder Bolt talked about the firm offering HNC but in the round the English kids drop out. Why do you blame immigrants for that?

show me where i blamed immigrants for youngsters dropping out of that firm.

He hasn't blamed immigrants.

He apportions partial blame to “cheap foriegn labour”

Again.Simply not true
I havnt apportioned any blame on cheap foreign labour to kids dropping out of working in the factory in the firm mentioned by Thunder Bolt or dropping out of working in any factory for that matter.
You can keep repeating it, but how about providing a quote next time, which you seem to be unable to do.

Got to snigger [MENTION=33848]The Clamp[/MENTION] giving you a thumbs up on what i have apparently been saying, not bad for someone who claims he has me on ignore and doesnt read what i am saying anyway.
What a (hats are back in stock)

 

[pastafarian]

It's not the snooty middle class liberal way - it's the snooty, Tory, Brexit voting, public school, red trouser wearing, Country Squire Magazine reading, pervert, 'Tally Ho! I'm British what, what, what' and I like to watch Last Night of The Proms and bounce up and down to songs about The British Empire and Naval Ditties in my Drawing Room, and refer to people as 'oiks' and 'Townies' way - People just like you Pasta.

Um not me at all 1/10.......must try harder
I gave you a 1/10 as i quite enjoy the patriotic Last Night of the Proms sing a long ( and some of the other music during the proms)......will prob give the last night a miss this year though.
But tell me, what do you have against the Last Night of the Proms?.......is it simply your class warrior chip on the shoulder thing?
Couldnt you just not watch it if you dont like it? Or is it important for you that others must be aware of your self loathing?

 

[WATFORD zero]

Both higher and non-higher educated people are critical to make a country function. One is not better than the other. But both should have the education they require for free.

Yes, I understand you think it should be free. And that's where we disagree

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Taxes. We all need these people educated and it is up to all of us to pay to get then educated. We are all better off by it.

Ah, the magic taxpayer's money tree. So it costs around £33bn to run universities ( that doesn't include tech colleges etc ). Taxpayers already pay about £8.5bn of that bill. Uni students pay £14.6bn of the bill in fees. To replace that £14.6bn you would have to increase income tax - for ALL rates - by ~4p. Would you be happy to pay that increase ? After all the people it would hit the most would be the poorest taxpayers. How EXACTLY would YOU fund this idea ?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Why? How can you argue that higher educated individuals should be burdened with debt but those who don't should not be? Both are vital and required and of equal importance to society. Why are you happy to punish one set and not the other?

And those that go to Uni benefit from it the most. Taxpayers already fund 25% of the costs so everyone is already paying to ensure we have suitably qualified individuals for society.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Why? How can you argue that higher educated individuals should be burdened with debt but those who don't should not be? Both are vital and required and of equal importance to society. Why are you happy to punish one set and not the other?

Did you want the 5 minute argument or the full half hour ?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

So your talking about Higher Education. How do you suggest it is funded if those that choose to go don't pay fees ?

It helps when foreign students come to our colleges and universities paying the full amount. In fact, they are subsidising our own youngsters.

Did you know foreign university students are included in the immigration figures, even though the vast majority of them are only here for three years?

 

[ManOfSussex]

Um not me at all 1/10.......must try harder
I gave you a 1/10 as i quite enjoy the patriotic Last Night of the Proms sing a long ( and some of the other music during the proms)......will prob give the last night a miss this year though.
But tell me, what do you have against the Last Night of the Proms?.......is it simply your class warrior chip on the shoulder thing?
Couldnt you just not watch it if you dont like it? Or is it important for you that others must be aware of your self loathing?

It always overruns, meaning if I happen to be watching the late news or Match of The Day on that particular Saturday night I don't have a choice - Public school numpties bouncing up and down to Naval ditties and songs about The British Empire come at me, along with some conductor waffling on, telling unfunny jokes that the aforementioned public school numpties will roar with laughter at, along with some opera singer dressed like a t**t singing 'Rule Britannia!' which is always referred to as 'Thomas Arne's Rule Britannia!' Why is that anyway? Is it a better version or something, like 'Spectrum' by Florence and The Machine compared to 'Spectrum' by Florence and The Machine (Calvin Harris Remix) the latter being the more banging tune.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

And those that go to Uni benefit from it the most. Taxpayers already fund 25% of the costs so everyone is already paying to ensure we have suitably qualified individuals for society.

Some people never pay back their student loan. Their income has to reach one of two levels.

Plan 1 loans will start being repaid once you earn over £18,330 a year.

Plan 2 loan repayments start once you earn over £25,000 a year.

I know people who went to university and got a degree but were working in admin with me on just £21K a year, so therefore only paying back the minimum.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Education should be free for all, end of. Private schools should be banned or allow all kids in the area to attend even if they cant affors to. Why should one chils receive a higher level of education simply due to their parents wealth? What did the poorer children do to deserve that treatment?

Education is free for all but why should you take away freedom of choice? If someone earns money, they can choose how they spend their own money. If private schools didn't exist then the rich parents would pay a tutor to visit their homes.

 

[nicko31]

These sorts of comments were pretty typical in much of the coverage immediately around the time of the referendum - especially in places like Middlesbrough and (good old Stoke). For all that the Leavers tell us that people 'knew what they were voting for' out of the customs union, Single market etc) I'm totally sure that a big slice of the leave vote was simply a protest about being 'left behind' and without any coherent thinking about


a) to what extent the EU might be directly responsible for this (as opposed to home grown austerity or even globalisation) and

b) how leaving the EU would make any difference to these problems in a practical way


I think if there'd be a referendum to abolish London it might have well generated quite a few votes (outside London)!

I guess that was what leave did so well, they got a reaction based on emotion not logic from a certain group

The cruelest twist of Brexit is the left behinds are the ones that are going to pay the heaviest price for being duped by the Tory right and their offshore mates in the press