[Politics] Brexit

[Neville's Breakfast]

Why is it due to the EU? Why could it not be because the world has changed. The world now has China as a major commercial player. India, Brazil, and probably a number of other nations are emerging economic powers where wages are low. Could it be that it is against those whom we are competing and what might be driving down wages.

You need to differentiate between Service and Manufacturing industry. The emerging countries you mention drive down wage costs in manufacturing industry and we see the consequences in the effects on for example our steel industry. Britain these days has become more of a service economy. Youngsters, by and large, do not move to London to take up manufacturing jobs, they move to work in financial services, internet companies etc etc and these firms have a very large pool of labour from all over the EU from which to choose. It is simple supply and demand with no constraints on a rampant free market in labour for those from the EU. The same does not apply to youngsters from emerging nations to the same degree as they do not have the right to free movement in the same way as enjoyed by youngsters from the EU.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

You still can, stop blaming others for your failings.

My failings? My wife recently got made redundant, I was self employed and I'm not earning what I used too. I'm now leaflet distributing. I'm not lazy. We don't know what our future now holds, but hey just make it harder for British people to get on. Immigration has just made it harder to find jobs.

 

[yxee]

You are aware that the NHS has pretty much always needed staff from overseas, long before the EU.

No first world country should fundamentally require staff from overseas.

We only need it in the UK because of poor education.

There are plenty of unemployed British people who could have done these jobs, had they been educated sufficiently.

 

[drew]

You need to differentiate between Service and Manufacturing industry. The emerging countries you mention drive down wage costs in manufacturing industry and we see the consequences in the effects on for example our steel industry. Britain these days has become more of a service economy. Youngsters, by and large, do not move to London to take up manufacturing jobs, they move to work in financial services, internet companies etc etc and these firms have a very large pool of labour from all over the EU from which to choose. It is simple supply and demand with no constraints on a rampant free market in labour for those from the EU. The same does not apply to youngsters from emerging nations to the same degree as they do not have the right to free movement in the same way as enjoyed by youngsters from the EU.

Have to say I'm getting a little confused. One minute the Brexit crew are arguing that unskilled eastern Europeans are coming in and taking the jobs away from Brits (see Westdene's post 5039). Now they are driving down the wages of service sector (and let's be honest, we are talking about the Financial Service sector of the economy). I worked in the financial service sector for nearly 30 years and, to be honest, am struggling to remember any European employees. I did leave in 2007 but what I do recall are plenty of South Africans, Australians.

 

[brighton fella]

Iv'e just sat the entire Brexit movie for the very first time, it's nothing that i didn't already know but all the same a MUST WATCH for anyone especially the undecided, i doubt that any of the remain lot would stomach it but if they did atleast they'd have a far better understanding of what they would be letting themselves in for. this little gem should be made compulsory viewing..

 

[drew]

No first world country should fundamentally require staff from overseas.

We only need it in the UK because of poor education.

There are plenty of unemployed British people who could have done these jobs, had they been educated sufficiently.

Which first world countries do you know that don't make use of overseas labour to support the indigenous workforce.

 

[yxee]

Have to say I'm getting a little confused. One minute the Brexit crew are arguing that unskilled eastern Europeans are coming in and taking the jobs away from Brits (see Westdene's post 5039). Now they are driving down the wages of service sector (and let's be honest, we are talking about the Financial Service sector of the economy). I worked in the financial service sector for nearly 30 years and, to be honest, am struggling to remember any European employees. I did leave in 2007 but what I do recall are plenty of South Africans, Australians.

The number of EU immigrants living in the UK has increased by 50% since 2007.

Which first world countries do you know that don't make use of overseas labour to support the indigenous workforce.

The question isn't binary, different countries rely on it to different extents. The UK is relying on it too much.

 

[Machiavelli]

You used to be able to work hard and achieve something, now you work hard and achieve nothing, your still at the same place. Why? Because by continuing in the EU you are helping to drive the low wage economy, that benefits big business and people from the poorest countries, but doesn't benefit us.

It is obvious what is going on here, but the government masks this by saying we have a good economy. It is a race to the bottom. If you want to live in the type of economy where you will eventually be selling match sticks to make a living, be my guest.

You used to be able to work hard and get somewhere because there was an economic system that encouraged social mobility, and rewarded hard work and ingenuity. We now have a global financialised neoliberal system, which favours a narrow elite, has increased insecurity, decreased socioeconomic mobility, increased inequality and set the conditions to let climate change rip.

 

[brighton fella]

All quiet from the remainers tonight. Contemplating the money in their pockets or language skills to describe how they feel I guess. Bless 'em!

I tried to PM you at least 3 times last night, i'm not sure if any were successful in reaching you. could you do us a favour by letting me know

 

[melias shoes]

Iv'e just sat the entire Brexit movie for the very first time, it's nothing that i didn't already know but all the same a MUST WATCH for anyone especially the undecided, i doubt that any of the remain lot would stomach it but if they did atleast they'd have a far better understanding of what they would be letting themselves in for. this little gem should be made compulsory viewing..

I think we can safely say it won't be on the BBC anytime soon!

 

[Bladders]

I'm still convinced most remainers don't really know what they are actually voting for.

A healthy economy? Future prosperity?

Fair enough . But then you look at Eurozone and the economies in the EU and it's a total basket case .

Why oh why do you think the UK will be financially better off in the far future stuck in with that calamity ?
[MENTION=11191]Pretty pink fairy[/MENTION] says it best, you need to give your heads a wobble.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Firstly many of these roles do pay more than minimum wage. Secondly, it's all about chances - if you're only one out of four going for the job then you have a far better chance than a one out of 100. There are too many people going for too few jobs. Remove immigrants from that hundred and locals get a better chance.

I understand this and I also understand and very much know the frustration and despair the youth and working class currently feel. My solution to this is to grow and develop the economy and provide more, and a wider range of, jobs. Rolling up the draw bridge and reducing competitiveness for jobs, and in turn productivity, is more harmful IMHO; it isn't the simple numbers game you suggest. The best thing you can give the workers is a strong and varied economy.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

I'm still convinced most remainers don't really know what they are actually voting for.

A healthy economy? Future prosperity?

Fair enough . But then you look at Eurozone and the economies in the EU and it's a total basket case .

Why oh why do you think the UK will be financially better off in the far future stuck in with that calamity ?
[MENTION=11191]Pretty pink fairy[/MENTION] says it best, you need to give your heads a wobble.

I think 'Pretty Pink Fairy' speaks more sense than 'Pretty pink fairy'.

 

[portslade seagull]

I understand this and I also understand and very much know the frustration and despair the youth and working class currently feel. My solution to this is to grow and develop the economy and provide more, and a wider range of, jobs. Rolling up the draw bridge and reducing competitiveness for jobs, and in turn productivity, is more harmful IMHO; it isn't the simple numbers game you suggest. The best thing you can give the workers is a strong and varied economy.

You need to join the winning team now. Remain now flogging a dead horse

 

[Bladders]

Give the worker a strong and varied economy? Tied to basket case Economies of the EU and the sinking Euro?

Have a day off ffs

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Disappointing reading many of the Remain posts this morning. Lots of 'I'm all-right Jack attitude' with little empathy for the UK unemployed or the low, semi skilled who are having their wages suppressed (according to Bank of England study) by mass immigration.

It's great if you own a business and don't care where your steady stream of cheap labour comes from or the effect it has on your fellow citizens. Not bothered if you look in from afar and just assume Brits are lazy and don't consider why so many jobs are being offered at only the minimum wage. Not bothered unless your particular sector which you once worked in wasn't awash with Europeans competing for jobs. Not bothered about demand for school places, access to healthcare, housing, other services unless it personally effects them. Couldn't care less if other peoples usually poorer neighbourhoods change beyond all recognition within a decade just as long as their part of the world is ok.

It isn't the immigrants fault that they exploit the opportunities here most of us would do the same but it is numerous governments fault for allowing this to happen it is the price of EU membership .. and will be anyone voting Remain's fault if they argue it should continue.

 

[Bladders]

REMAINERS just seem to be arguing anything for the sake of it today.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Have to say I'm getting a little confused. One minute the Brexit crew are arguing that unskilled eastern Europeans are coming in and taking the jobs away from Brits (see Westdene's post 5039). Now they are driving down the wages of service sector (and let's be honest, we are talking about the Financial Service sector of the economy). I worked in the financial service sector for nearly 30 years and, to be honest, am struggling to remember any European employees. I did leave in 2007 but what I do recall are plenty of South Africans, Australians.

Its both but they are separate phenomena. Indeed a lot has changed in financial services in 2007 not least as a consequence of the problems since caused by the Euro in weaker European economies. This has drawn skilled labour to London from all over Europe. These are highly motivated and very well qualified people and they are reacting to the weaknesses in their economies in a completely rational way by moving to London. It is our membership of the EU that enables them to do this and for them it is the right decision. However this creates huge competition for our youngsters and also drives up rental prices. Incidentally I don't think this is just in financial services. It is also the case in the creative industries and in all manner of skilled office jobs. A huge free market in labour has been created which is designed to attract skilled workers to areas of growth. Looks good to an economist on paper but it has huge social consequences for local people as wages are driven down and demand for public services increases. This is the problem with free markets. Employers get the benefit of cheap skilled labour without having to pay for much of the social cost (they will pay some via taxation).

 

[Bakero]

Here is the Brexit movie if anyone's interested. Haven't watched it yet but will have a look tomorrow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYqzcqDtL3k

Edit - apologies for the close up of Farage's mug.

 

[Bladders]

If the EU Referendum was today.

Can't blame immigrants from the EU for coming here, their own economies have gone to the wall .

But hey ho let's vote to stay so we can stay tied in to the sinking Eurozone