[Politics] Brexit

[ManOfSussex]

Unless I have missed it, has anybody seen Farage on TV lately, after today he may pop his mug up above the parapet but he seems to have gone into hiding, a sure sign that after cracking open the English Sparkling Wine, things are not going well.
Oh how I would love to see Farage and Cameron in a question and answer session.
Camerons disappearance since quitting as PM is a national disgrace a total w****** of a man and a hopeless PM.

He's Tweeted his disapproval on today's developments:

[tweet]1004742316677124097[/tweet]

I'm sure his and Cameron's time will come at the future inquiry into this whole debacle.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Unless I have missed it, has anybody seen Farage on TV lately, after today he may pop his mug up above the parapet but he seems to have gone into hiding, a sure sign that after cracking open the English Sparkling Wine, things are not going well.
Oh how I would love to see Farage and Cameron in a question and answer session.
Camerons disappearance since quitting as PM is a national disgrace a total w****** of a man and a hopeless PM.

This is he latest tweet -

Brexiteers must resist the new customs union proposal. It is completely unacceptable to all people who voted to Leave the EU.

after claiming he never said life would be better after Brexit.

Why are journo's uselss - never pulled up on any of this stuff.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

kerf'uckin' shambols. Cameron should be arrested and charged with treason. The only thing that softens all this is the unexpected but increasing liklihood that Brexit will never happen. Anyway, my family have just had a vote and by a majority I am now goint to shoot my left leg off. Fair's fair, though.

 

[pastafarian]

So in the absence of anything being agreed, it sounds very much to me like we are in the customs union and single market.

If you say so.
Let me know when the EU agree to us remaining in The Customs Union whilst maintaining having a vote on The Customs Union policy after we have left the EU, considering we will have no representative on the Commission, permit us special status over others in The Customs Union of being able to pursue our own international trade and let us have membership of the single market without free movement and without the primacy of the body that regulates it, the ECJ.
You appear very confident they will cave in on these issues, and we will stay in The Customs Union and members of the single market.
Personally I will continue to believe they will stick to their mantra that the four freedoms are indivisible and you cant be in The Customs Union and have your cake and eat it too.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/1004755363084820482

[tweet]1004755363084820482[/tweet]

 

[Thunder Bolt]

https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1004769364925714432

[tweet]1004769364925714432[/tweet]

 

[pastafarian]

We've also agreed to pay the complete 'divorce' bill before we even find out whether we have a trading agreement

Oh dear, what are you confused about now?
Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed is a core principle of The EU in negotiations for a Withdrawal Agreement.
You yourself have decided to roll this principle over onto a final trading agreement as well, when its obvious it is relevant to
“matters pertaining to the withdrawal of the United Kingdom from the Union”.
not the finalised concluded Trade deal as well.

The financial settlement aka divorce bill, is part of the Withdrawal Agreement phase.
Of course it has to be settled before an agreed Trade Agreement, they are separate phase deals A final trade agreement cannot happen before we Leave.

Im surprised you didn’t know this (although you don’t seem to be alone).

Article 50 will tell you a withdrawal agreement comes first, before a future relationship finalised trade deal. Perhaps you should have read it.

2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union.

http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/th.../title-6-final-provisions/137-article-50.html


The published negotiating guidelines provided by The European Council are crystal clear as well, the financial settlement is part of the Withdrawal agreement, perhaps you should have read those too.


III. Agreement on arrangements for an orderly withdrawal

10. A single financial settlement - including issues resulting from the MFF as well as those related to the European Investment Bank (EIB), the European Development Fund (EDF) and the European Central Bank (ECB) - should ensure that the Union and the United Kingdom both respect the obligations resulting from the whole period of the UK membership in the Union. The settlement should cover all commitments as well as liabilities, including contingent liabilities.

The Withdrawal Agreement comes first, we then leave and after leaving a trade deal can be concluded, following the initial agreement on a framework only.

II. A phased approach to negotiations

5. While an agreement on a future relationship between the Union and the United Kingdom as such can only be finalised and concluded once the United Kingdom has become a third country, Article 50 TEU requires to take account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union in the arrangements for withdrawal.

19. The British government has indicated that it will not seek to remain in the Single Market, but would like to pursue an ambitious free trade agreement with the European Union. Based on the Union's interests, the European Council stands ready to initiate work towards an agreement on trade, to be finalised and concluded once the United Kingdom is no longer a Member State.


http://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2017/04/29/euco-brexit-guidelines/


Your admission to not knowing this also underpins why the calls for a second referendum before we Leave, on the Withdrawal Agreement Deal saying we will be fully informed on the future relationship trade deal are so utterly ridiculous as well. You wont know, at that stage what the concluded trade deal will be. About time your second referendumers stopped lying to you.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Oh dear, what are you confused about now?
Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed is a core principle of The EU in negotiations for a Withdrawal Agreement.
You yourself have decided to roll this principle over onto a final trading agreement as well, when its obvious it is relevant to
“matters pertaining to the withdrawal of the United Kingdom from the Union”.
not the finalised concluded Trade deal as well.

The financial settlement aka divorce bill, is part of the Withdrawal Agreement phase.
Of course it has to be settled before an agreed Trade Agreement, they are separate phase deals A final trade agreement cannot happen before we Leave.

Im surprised you didn’t know this (although you don’t seem to be alone).

Article 50 will tell you a withdrawal agreement comes first, before a future relationship finalised trade deal. Perhaps you should have read it.

2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union.

http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/th.../title-6-final-provisions/137-article-50.html


The published negotiating guidelines provided by The European Council are crystal clear as well, the financial settlement is part of the Withdrawal agreement, perhaps you should have read those too.


III. Agreement on arrangements for an orderly withdrawal

10. A single financial settlement - including issues resulting from the MFF as well as those related to the European Investment Bank (EIB), the European Development Fund (EDF) and the European Central Bank (ECB) - should ensure that the Union and the United Kingdom both respect the obligations resulting from the whole period of the UK membership in the Union. The settlement should cover all commitments as well as liabilities, including contingent liabilities.

The Withdrawal Agreement comes first, we then leave and after leaving a trade deal can be concluded, following the initial agreement on a framework only.

II. A phased approach to negotiations

5. While an agreement on a future relationship between the Union and the United Kingdom as such can only be finalised and concluded once the United Kingdom has become a third country, Article 50 TEU requires to take account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union in the arrangements for withdrawal.

19. The British government has indicated that it will not seek to remain in the Single Market, but would like to pursue an ambitious free trade agreement with the European Union. Based on the Union's interests, the European Council stands ready to initiate work towards an agreement on trade, to be finalised and concluded once the United Kingdom is no longer a Member State.


http://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2017/04/29/euco-brexit-guidelines/


Your admission to not knowing this also underpins why the calls for a second referendum before we Leave, on the Withdrawal Agreement Deal saying we will be fully informed on the future relationship trade deal are so utterly ridiculous as well. You wont know, at that stage what the concluded trade deal will be. About time your second referendumers stopped lying to you.

Really can't be arsed to waste any more keystrokes on you so my suggestion -

Email this to Theresa May, David Davis and Suela Braverman and maybe you can be the person who saves Brexit

*edit* Or you could go back to your specialist subjects (I know it's a cheapshot but what you did still makes me laugh, every time - it's like an internet four candles )

 

[Baldseagull]

If you say so.
Let me know when the EU agree to us remaining in The Customs Union whilst maintaining having a vote on The Customs Union policy after we have left the EU, considering we will have no representative on the Commission, permit us special status over others in The Customs Union of being able to pursue our own international trade and let us have membership of the single market without free movement and without the primacy of the body that regulates it, the ECJ.
You appear very confident they will cave in on these issues, and we will stay in The Customs Union and members of the single market.
Personally I will continue to believe they will stick to their mantra that the four freedoms are indivisible and you cant be in The Customs Union and have your cake and eat it too.

I agree, so forget transition period and start thinking extended membership.

 

[ManOfSussex]

I see it was announced earlier that Paul Dacre's replacement as Daily Mail editor will be Geordie Greig - a remainer. I guess Lord and Lady Rothermere don't want to be associated with a rudderless, sinking ship.

 

[pastafarian]

Really can't be arsed to waste any more keystrokes on you so my suggestion -

Email this to Theresa May, David Davis and Suela Braverman and maybe you can be the person who saves Brexit

*edit* Or you could go back to your specialist subjects (I know it's a cheapshot but what you did still makes me laugh, every time - it's like an internet four candles )

You could have just said bugger, i didnt realise that

 

[pastafarian]

I agree, so forget transition period and start thinking extended membership.

If you wish to have a comfort blanket situation where you pretend to yourself that we are still members after we have actually left I have no objection.
Denial seems to be catching anyway.

https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/1004755363084820482

[tweet]1004755363084820482[/tweet]

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....n-warns-uk-could-end-locked-orbit-around/amp/

Boris strikes again

 

[astralavi]

I see it was announced earlier that Paul Dacre's replacement as Daily Mail editor will be Geordie Greig - a remainer. I guess Lord and Lady Rothermere don't want to be associated with a rudderless, sinking ship.

That's best news of the decade

 

[Baldseagull]

If you wish to have a comfort blanket situation where you pretend to yourself that we are still members after we have actually left I have no objection.
Denial seems to be catching anyway.

Well, if we get to leaving day and nothing is agreed in full, what do you expect to happen?

 

[pastafarian]

Well, if we get to leaving day and nothing is agreed in full, what do you expect to happen?

Both sides can agree an extension to the negotiating timeframes or failing that, if we both cant agree to extending (it only takes one member of the EU Council to say no, no more extending) we will be Out with no withdrawal agreement in place.
Its all there in the treaty, its not a secret, I cant see the EU diverging from the specifics of the Treaty articles, all their credibility would be shot to pieces if they self initiated treaty change without the procedural input of other member states and all treaties wouldn’t be worth the paper they were written on.
All roads lead to Brexit.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

“You’ve got to face the fact there may now be a meltdown. OK? I don’t want anybody to panic during the meltdown."

A quote from Boris's leaked speech of last night. Is the fate of our nation really in the hands of such a dangerous buffoon?

 

[nicko31]

Boris at it again, TM should have sacked him months ago. He's no help at all in these chaotic times

 

[pastafarian]

“You’ve got to face the fact there may now be a meltdown. OK? I don’t want anybody to panic during the meltdown."

A quote from Boris's leaked speech of last night. Is the fate of our nation really in the hands of such a dangerous buffoon?

Umm no, the fate of our nation is not in the hands of one person, never has been, never will be.....you can cease wetting the bed now.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Umm no, the fate of our nation is not in the hands of one person, never has been, never will be.....you can cease wetting the bed now.

Yes and thanks be for that (until you look at one or two of the others). But (even?) you guys can't be comfortable with this sort of thing, surely? What more would he have to do to provoke nocturnal urinary incontinence (even?) in you? Take a gun into the negotiations?

I'm sure everything will turn out fine in the end (ahem)..........................But maybe some of the Brexiteers could show just a little awareness of the total shambles that their vote has triggered and cease defending (or promoting) the indefensible (that's Boris, if not the entire Brexit project).

As an observation I do find it ironic that those who were quickest to wrap themselves in the union-flag are now the architects of turning the country into a laughing-stock. No-one can be proud of this.