[Politics] Brexit

[Herr Tubthumper]

I think that the point about time to market for new drugs is important but not always entirely clear whether this is negative or positive. I know that there has been much scaremongering with claims that "people will die", e.g. particularly in relation to cancer therapies https://www.independent.co.uk/life-...-cancer-specialist-paul-workman-a7573851.html. However, the counter to this is in the very small number of meta studies the outcome has been that most drugs that have entered the market with recent EMA approval have no benefit in quality of life or survival rates (e.g. http://www.bmj.com/content/359/bmj.j4530):

Conclusions This systematic evaluation of oncology approvals by the EMA in 2009-13 shows that most drugs entered the market without evidence of benefit on survival or quality of life. At a minimum of 3.3 years after market entry, there was still no conclusive evidence that these drugs either extended or improved life for most cancer indications. When there were survival gains over existing treatment options or placebo, they were often marginal.

There is also a very strong argument that it is beneficial to get real human data before adopting new agents. The most oft quoted example is thalidomide where a delay in approval allowing pertinent patient-use data to become available would have had a very positive outcome. Evidence-base is the key thing, not the regulatory approval mechanism, where large-scale, and preferably prospective longitudinal studies can really evaluate efficacy. So, I guess that there is a real incentive for the EU to co-operate although from a professional point of view it is probably easier and more effective for the UK to engage in closer co-operation with our partners in the US and Canada. There's also no reason why new theraputic agents should be slower to the UK markets with closer alignment with the USA although no evidence that this will lead to better outcomes. This should be about good science not politics.

Interesting points. I have some thoughts but I’ll get back to you later....I have a few hours work then I am on my way to Liverpool for the weeekend.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

600 new jobs at booming digger-maker JCB

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/business/new-jobs-jcb-foston-rocester-1315070

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

It is a tory mess. We may come out of it, But its unforgivable in my book. Cameron is the worst PM of all time. Fact. You don't fire a gun randomly in the air then run away.

Anyway, this thread is far from a debate. It is a shit throwing competition, with no rules. May be a good idea to close it.

Indeed - the splits and arguments will go on for decades.

Cheers, Cameron !

 

[portslade seagull]

Indeed - the splits and arguments will go on for decades.

Cheers, Cameron !

Thank Blair for starting it off, Cameron just picked up the Baton

 

[nicko31]

600 new jobs at booming digger-maker JCB

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/business/new-jobs-jcb-foston-rocester-1315070

Yes because of strong global growth, despite our weak trade arrangements with the rest of the world, eh...

 

[nicko31]

Thank Blair for starting it off, Cameron just picked up the Baton

It took Blair 3 election victories to develop a toxic legacy. Dave only needed 1 and just over a year in office

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

600 new jobs at booming digger-maker JCB

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/business/new-jobs-jcb-foston-rocester-1315070

Digger maker is a bit disingenuous. JCB was featured on a radio doc a while back and their products are now 70% manufactured outside the U.K. Digger assembler is more accurate. And this is demonstrated by the low salary mentioned in the article; I wonder how much of a cost this is to the tax payer with topping up these salaries?

 

[ManOfSussex]

Thank Blair for starting it off, Cameron just picked up the Baton

Funny, I don't remember Blair signing The Maastricht Treaty and being stabbed in the back by his backbench oddballs throughout the 1990s, cheered on by their friends in the right wing press.

 

[vegster]

[tweet]971819306395807745[/tweet]

Lux PM Bettel: "They were in with a load of opt-outs. Now they are out, and want a load of opt-ins.”


Pretty much sums it up perfectly.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Lux PM Bettel: "They were in with a load of opt-outs. Now they are out, and want a load of opt-ins.”


Pretty much sums it up perfectly.

That's because Brexit means Brexit.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Cameron is the worst PM of all time. Fact.

That's quite some statement !!! May is far far worse and Callaghan was pretty dire.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Yes because of strong global growth, despite our weak trade arrangements with the rest of the world, eh...

So any negative news is BECAUSE of Brexit and any positive new is DESPITE of Brexit. You really are priceless.

 

[A1X]

600 new jobs at booming digger-maker JCB

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/business/new-jobs-jcb-foston-rocester-1315070

Not surprising a digger maker is doing well given the massive hole the UK is digging itself into.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

The EU has thrown down an ultimatum to Theresa May in Brexit talks, warning that it will not open discussions about trade or other issues until the Irish border question is solved.

Speaking in Dublin alongside the Irish Prime Minister Leo Varadkar, European Council President Donald Tusk said talks would be a case of “Ireland first” and that “the risk of destabilising the fragile peace process must be avoided at all costs”.

“We know today that the UK Government rejects a customs and regulatory border down the Irish Sea, the EU single market, and the customs union,” the Mr Tusk said.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Funny, I don't remember Blair signing The Maastricht Treaty and being stabbed in the back by his backbench oddballs throughout the 1990s, cheered on by their friends in the right wing press.

Indeed. Brown on the other hand signed the Lisbon Treaty despite promising us a referendum on it and lying. I say signed, he actually was such a coward he left it to David Milliband to do. A traitor, a liar and a coward was Brown.

 

[beorhthelm]

The EU has thrown down an ultimatum to Theresa May in Brexit talks, warning that it will not open discussions about trade or other issues until the Irish border question is solved.

the Irish border issue covers trade, so how does Tusk propose to continue when he wont discuss that subject? unless he is proposing a Anglo-Irish trade deal is reached before any other discussion, but EU members cant have unilateral trade deals so we are told. its contradictions all the way down. i dont know how anyone cant see this is being used as deliberate blocker to negotiation.

would also highlight that this position reneges on the previous EU position that trade cant be discussed until the first phase was completed. they completed the first phase. so they are moving the goal posts? its almost as if they dont want to negotiate anything.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Indeed. Brown on the other hand signed the Lisbon Treaty despite promising us a referendum on it and lying. I say signed, he actually was such a coward he left it to David Milliband to do. A traitor, a liar and a coward was Brown.

A bit like Cameron saying he'd get some vague, unspecified deal with The EU on top of our existing opt outs, then win an in/out referendum and invoke Article 50 the next day if he lost, but ran away to leave someone else to pick up the pieces of the mess of this unprepared, divided country - A traitor, a liar, a coward and a typical arrogant public school **** was Cameron - far worse than Brown.

 

[GT49er]

A bit like Cameron saying he'd get some vague, unspecified deal with The EU on top of our existing opt outs, then win an in/out referendum and invoke Article 50 the next day if he lost, but ran away to leave someone else to pick up the pieces of the mess of this divided country - A traitor, a liar, a coward and a typical arrogant public school **** was Cameron - far worse than Brown.

As bad as Brown, certainly.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

That's quite some statement !!! May is far far worse and Callaghan was pretty dire.

May is in a no win situation. Whatever deal she obtains will leave at least half the electorate (probably more) in a fury, and indeed derisive of her role. But the shitstorm she inherited was made by Cameron. I doubt there is anything she could do or say that would make her look good. In her favour, she probably knows this and is probably acting out of a sense of duty rather than in order to become a national treasure. Avoiding the sort of tory rebellions that some of her predecessors faced (including Thacher) has, under the circumastances, been a relative triumph.

Callaghan would be remembered differently had he called a general election six months earlier. The endless strikes and endless parades of trade union leaders (with no public engagement training) ranting halitotically on the news every day was just a continuation of a process that began after the war with the post war 'concensus', and with both parties not questioning the 'public ownership' of everything from post, power and water through some car manufacture to where you could buy a toaster. Alec Home, Wilson, Heath....all pretty much the same.....Callaghan was little different .

Cameron on the other hand wrote one of the most reactionary manifestos of our time (Michael Howard's suicide note) then completely rebranded himself as the 'tory Mr Tony'. If Mr Tony was Thom Yorke, then Cameron was Matt Bellamy. Then almost as an afterthought one afternoon after a spot of hunting and shooting, he decided that it would be a great wheeze to ditch his critics once and for all by having a referendum on EU membership which of course he'd win. When he lost, he just wandered back to his massive castle to play with his money. Feckless clown. Nobody worse.

 

[vegster]

Indeed. Brown on the other hand signed the Lisbon Treaty despite promising us a referendum on it and lying. I say signed, he actually was such a coward he left it to David Milliband to do. A traitor, a liar and a coward was Brown.

I always have to laugh when this sort of crap turns up ! a traitor, how funny is this ? did he flog our secrets to the Russians ? did he steal the Crown Jewels ? get a life quick before you rupture an Aorta or similar. jeez.