In the hierarchy of human need How important is food ?
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[Politics] Brexit
- Thread starter KingstonSeagull
- Start date
In the hierarchy of human need How important is food ?
we are subsidising the cost of food by subsidising Farmers? Without Farm Subsidies food costs would have to rise.
We are talking about producers of food! We either subsidise them or pay more for their product.
Perhaps we should stop subsidizing rail franchises and let them charge more!!
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jul/07/corporate-welfare-a-93bn-handshake
How do migrants pay EXTRA tax rather than to REPLACE it?
Regards wages,there are enough reports on google for both sides as you already know.
Lincoln Imp
Well-known member
- Feb 2, 2009
- 5,964
I recall a post in which you expressed astonishment at the fact that Leave campaign leaders never pointed out that the tax migrants pay simply replaced the tax native workers previously paid. Perhaps they, and most of the rest of the world, and certainly the eternally patient 5ways, understand that it is simply not true.
Great.So explain to me how it isn't so.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/628640/Bank-of-England-migration-down-wages
“This new research by the Bank of England blows their claims out of the water. It has found a significant negative impact on those in the lower skilled services sector in which six million UK born are working. This amounts to nearly a quarter of all British workers.”
No. But I can see why farmers think we should.
you can skip to about 3:30 - one of my favourite youtube channels sets it out quite clearly.
Trufflehound
Re-enfranchised
From the actual abstract of the report, rather than filtered through jaundiced Daily Express eyes: "We also investigate if there is any differential impact between immigration from the EU and non-EU, and find that there is no additional impact on aggregate UK wages as a result of migrants arriving specifically from EU countries."
http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/research/Documents/workingpapers/2015/swp574.pdf
- Jan 18, 2009
- 4,887
Of course not, but a private business is not a private business if it needs massive subsidies from the Govt.......if that is what farms need we should nationalise them. Well, we would if it was not illegal under EU competition law.
The CAP is the very last aspect of the EU I would expect someone to defend the EU. It is an appalling construct and it serves to make prices artificially higher for consumers, and benefits farmers for non production.
Furthermore, any industry that uses the argument that it would not survive without minimum wage labour needs reform.
This argument was used to institute the statute of labourers act in the 1380s, the first time the powerful legislated to oppress the pay of workers. They were wrong then and they are wrong now.
Get rid of CAP, regain control the labour market, pay proper wages and Farmers will just have to survive on less profit.
Maybe we should stop supermarkets screwing farmers and that would mean no need for subsidies ?
portslade seagull
Well-known member
Is this a we must keep them in their place argument for all low paid workers. Your true colours are now nailed to the mast.
Alternatively, as Westdene stated, pay them the correct price for their products and they wouldn't need subsidies. Thatt argument applies to everything though. Pay higher train fares and the franchises wouldn't need subsidies for example. At the end of the day, the consumer pays for this, whether it be via taxation to provide the subsidy or through higher prices!!
pastafarian
Well-known member
not surprised you wanted people to skip the first section.
people would miss out on how the US ran into problems with its huge migration and had to ban asians from entering and "curtail" europeans with laws that remained until the 60`s.,they would also miss out on how immigration is a hot topic of debate now and how the three legislative bodies are fighting to handle it
I gave up at 3.29, the first bit just reinforced my belief we need to control the numbers of EU migration into this country.
Some migration is good….we all agree.
the numbers we are getting now legal and illegal are not sustainable
The bit after 3:30 it gets into the guts of the thing....
- Jan 18, 2009
- 4,887
I am clear, CAP is a massive con, we should not be expected to subsidise farmers. The real trick about CAP of course is that UK taxpayers pay twice, firstly because we are a net contributor to the EU budget, of which nearly half is for the CAP.
Then we pay again for higher prices.
That is the problem for you stinking Tory *******s, it's the poor and powerless that suffer here with loss of tax to rich European farmers, plus higher food prices. Then you have the nerve to say, despite the playing field being angled in your favour that you need to pay your workers minimum wage!!!
As for the trains Margaret......they should be nationalised. To do that though we will have to leave.
brighton fella
New member
- Mar 20, 2009
- 1,645
In order to sustain current levels of immigration many will have no choice but to go out of business ...if for nothing else merely to pave way for the extra hospitals and schools we so desperately need
You think I'm a tory!!!!!!!
Remove the subsidy from farmers then they will put their prices up who suffers then? The worst affected will be the poor. At the moment, the low paid don't pay much tax so they probably contribute very little to the subsidy, and rightly so. Your plan will see them have to fork out for higher prices.
That vastly over simplifies CAP subsidies. In some cases farmers are paid NOT to produce anything - it was the EU's 'clever' plan to stop the infamous EU 'butter mountains'. In other cases farmers are given subsidies to plant hedges etc. It's not all about producing food.