[Politics] Brexit

[beorhthelm]

if you are trying to win the "I have no idea how the EU works" competition.

They have made it abundantly clear that people and goods are not separated with regards to our access. If we want free trade with goods then we keep the current rules on people. How can they have different land and sea rules? Isn't a slight flaw in your plan that good could be sent to Ireland by sea and then moved by land?

thanks for sensible point. yes, there is a risk goods can be sent via Ireland to NI, or from NI via Ireland to rest of EU or even from UK via NI. this needs to be addressed by monitoring and controlling goods, which can be practically acheived with IT and proof of origin documentation. not an overnight fix, but achievable if we agree and get on with it.

movement of people is a red-herring as it does not mean people cannot physically move across borders. its about what they are allowed to do, their rights, once there. the EU say we must have free movement of people and goods (and capital), they can come up with an alternative version to apply only to IRE and UK citizens in each others country. having rights in Ireland does not have to mean automatic rights to every other EU member.

though you maybe right in "no idea how the EU works", mine is a forlorn hope they want to find solutions and agreement. i do realise with the months passing that may not be how they work and our "leaders" arent helping either.

 

[WATFORD zero]

suggesting no immigration controls across the land border, checks on origin of goods going over the border with more stringent checks on the sea crossings. as neither are in Schengen there is officially border controls in place anyway.

So your solution is :

A border between Ireland and Northern Ireland.
A border between Northern Ireland and Britain.
No Immigration controls.
Get the EU to treat Ireland differently to the rest of the EU.
Get Britain to treat NI differently to the rest of Britain.

And this is going to be achieved using proof of origin documentation and IT.

Well you can't be accused of not trying to find a solution. Good luck with that

 

[nicko31]

So your solution is :

A border between Ireland and Northern Ireland.
A border between Northern Ireland and Britain.
No Immigration controls.
Get the EU to treat Ireland differently to the rest of the EU.
Get Britain to treat NI differently to the rest of Britain.

And this is going to be achieved using proof of origin documentation and IT.

Well you can't be accused of not trying to find a solution. Good luck with that

One word BREXDREAMIST

 

[beorhthelm]

So your solution is :

...not what you wrote, pretty clear im suggesting no borders. i dont think you want to play, turning each point on its head deliberatly. except for the EU to treat Ireland slightly differently to the rest of EU in respect to UK only. they do this elsewhere, they can make exceptions when they want to.

 

[WATFORD zero]

you can separate movement of goods and movement of people. and seperate border control as the EU does (Schengen is not EU agreement). you can separate spheres of control too, so there are different rules for goods across the land border and sea border. so broadly, you can maintain free movement of Irish and UK people across those borders, have goods restrictions on sea border while not on the land border.

...not what you wrote, pretty clear im suggesting no borders. i dont think you want to play, turning each point on its head deliberatly. except for the EU to treat Ireland slightly differently to the rest of EU in respect to UK only. they do this elsewhere, they can make exceptions when they want to.

If there are no borders, where are you going to control and monitor these bloody goods FFS

I'm really not trying to be awkward but .....

And with that, I'm out

 

[Two Professors]

Quote of the year goes to Peter Kyle lambasting the 'Experts' of KPMG over Carillion."I wouldn't hire you to audit the contents of my fridge".Perhaps the light is dawning on how useless these money 'geniuses' really are.

 

[pastafarian]

The way in which cheap imports affected US manufacturing and, consequently, the lives of people who worked in and around it was one of the issues that drove Donald Trump to the White House. In England, similar feelings of being left behind, of not sharing in the country's prosperity, of not being listened to all helped to drive the Brexit vote. I haven't the vaguest idea how you think the industry-decimating theories of the professor from Cardiff will provide the people of (say) the NE with the succour they need and seek. He admits that his ideas will mean that their major employers will go but, as a word of comfort, adds that "there will always be jobs for people without sophisticated skills". Welcome to the Keith Joseph for the Brexit age.

You seem to have confused me with someone who cares what the esteemed economist forecasts.
I was more interested in your ability to continually cherry pick certain words from that article and not being able or willing to quote longer sections to add context.

 

[nicko31]

Labour policy clearly shifting toward the Customs Union

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...on-plan-perversion-of-democracy-politics-live

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/labour-wants-team-up-eu-12072665

Quite possible could be no majority in parliament to leave it.

 

[Ernest]

Another benefit of leaving has been revealed and that is that UK driving licences will not be valid in the EU after Brexit

#takingbackcontrol #bluepassports

 

[Baldseagull]

As has been the case for years. Yet remainers keep telling us our trade with the EU will be LESS after leaving not more - so why does this work need doing now more urgently all of a sudden ?

 

[Lincoln Imp]

You seem to have confused me with someone who cares what the esteemed economist forecasts.
I was more interested in your ability to continually cherry pick certain words from that article and not being able or willing to quote longer sections to add context.

You've lost me here. What article? What continual cherry-picking?

 

[beorhthelm]

If there are no borders, where are you going to control and monitor these bloody goods FFS

I'm really not trying to be awkward but .....

And with that, I'm out

yeah, fair point.

 

[Hampster Gull]

jokers to the left of me, clowns to the right, here I am stuck in the middle With you

 

[studio150]

Another benefit of leaving has been revealed and that is that UK driving licences will not be valid in the EU after Brexit

#takingbackcontrol #bluepassports

And presumably motor insurance, so a warm welcome back to Green Cards and International Driving Permits

 

[Hampster Gull]

The Tories are really f***ing this up. Grow,some. What’s the policy. If it’s to keep close to the EU then do the obvious, if it’s to turn you back and seek new green fields, then tell the EU to f**k off now. This nonsense dance is pathetic.

 

[pastafarian]

I'll remind you again, the ignore option has a view post facility. I use that. I pick and choose what posts of yours I view but it's useful not to have your early morning rants splattered all over four pages of the thread.
So I'll try and make it clear for you and we'll hear no more about it. You are on my ignore list. I look at your posts when I want . There's **** all you can do about the way I run my account so live with it.

So not really on ignore at all,just pretending,good to know.
You are like the vegetarian who makes exceptions for bacon sandwiches.

 

[pastafarian]

Labour policy clearly shifting toward the Customs Union

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...on-plan-perversion-of-democracy-politics-live

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/labour-wants-team-up-eu-12072665

Quite possible could be no majority in parliament to leave it.

I see what you did there, ever so subtly twisting the reported words
There is a subtle but enormous difference
Have a read again.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...b0bcd7f42a6a9d#block-5a8ed2aee4b0bcd7f42a6a9d
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/labour-wants-team-up-eu-12072665


The party "seriously can’t think of anything else" to solve those problems, so "of course we will need to be in a form of customs union," she said.She added: “Technically because we’re leaving the EU we can’t be in the customs union that we’re in now.
Emily Thornberry

We’re not supporting membership of ‘the’ customs union, but we are looking at ‘a’ customs union. The reason we’re saying ‘a’ customs union is because we don’t want the same asymmetric relationship that Turkey have got.
John McDonnell

So Labour is not shifting toward THE Customs Union and it looks like there is no majority in Parliament to stay in it(THE Customs Union) either.
Would the EU want a new negotiated cake and eat it bespoke Customs Union as Labour are proposing, they don’t seem that keen so far.

For an added bonus for the “brexit wont happen” gang
From the same article

But he also said Labour was not ready to reopen the debate about staying in the single market. He said:
"We respect the referendum result and many people who voted for leave and others may not feel that’s respecting the result itself, because we have to adopt all the four freedoms [if the UK stays in the single market]. We think we can develop a new relationship with Europe that overcomes many of those perceived disbenefits and that’s why we think we can get as close to single market as we can and gain the benefits from it."

 

[pastafarian]

You've lost me here. What article? What continual cherry-picking?

What article? The one he wrote for a national newspaper, the one you keep cherry picking "mostly eliminate British manufacturing" words from (you cant even get that spot on accurate) please tell me you did actually read the full article for context and you are not just picking out words from third party hand me downs.

 

[beorhthelm]

Labour policy clearly shifting toward the Customs Union

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...on-plan-perversion-of-democracy-politics-live

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/labour-wants-team-up-eu-12072665

Quite possible could be no majority in parliament to leave it.

Labour policy doesnt seem to have shifted at all in the past week or so, maintaining a position for being in "a" customs union. he even emphasises this himself. interesting the position is expanded, "a" means not the same "asymmetric relationship that Turkey have got". it goes on that they'll negotiate a deal based on our ability to contribute to future negotiations. isnt this what remainers and EU have been telling use we cant do, cherry pick deals and have any say in future of EU? so still leaving, but arranging membership of a customs union, a trade deal... it not actually different to the government position is it?

 

[vegster]

Another benefit of leaving has been revealed and that is that UK driving licences will not be valid in the EU after Brexit

#takingbackcontrol #bluepassports

Look on the bright side, it will make foreign holidays seem like a real adventure again ! all the roll on /roll off stuff is too easy. Much more fun having customs check every vehicle, the drivers insurance and licence and then the fun of trying to get a bit more than your Duty Free limit back in.