[Politics] Brexit

[vegster]

isnt this reflective of the wider population? no point making this about internal Tory party splits, Labour are split, and the country was split too. May cant go forward without one side or the other crying foul, and she certainly doesnt have leadership qualities to drive a decisive path. i wonder though what sort of exit would be acceptable for remainers, so that there is some sort of compromise to work with.

Unfortunately for the Tories, they are the ones in government. When the country requires great, decisive leadership to unite and motivate the country we get Mrs May. As for any compromise, every time someone from either wing who has some authority who voice's what they would like to see happen is immediately shot down.

 

[Baldseagull]

of course some did. not all leavers cared about immigration, or took NHS funding as a promise. leaving custom union to allow freer trade would have been a primary purpose for hundreds of thousands of voters. another point earlier was about the demographics, old and uneducated voted leave, young and educated voted to remain is ths simplistic view. but go look at the actual numbers, its more complex than that. third of leavers were graduates, similar number were under 35. people need to get out of these simple caricatures of who leaver (or remain) voters are, because theres millions of them that dont fit.

OK, fair point, James Dyson and that sort were probably thinking customs union.
I have been careful to not say all leavers, I didn't bring the demographics up, JCFG did with his comment on the London vote and BigGully backed him. There is a strong correlation between the levels of education and the way people voted, of course not everyone fits into the box, I don't for one, but if someone asks why it can be said that the Leave vote was dominated by the lower educated, but it can't be said that Remain was dominated by foreign born people, I am going to tell him.
Pastafarian then claimed it was due to the educated being out of touch, based on what I have heard from my family, friends, my neighbourhood, and to some degree what I have read in this thread, I think most people that thought about it recognised there is an issue in some places caused by high migration, but that on the whole it is beneficial. We were voting for our countries relationship, not our towns, and while residents of Lincoln may find there is a bit more farm work available to them next summer, on the whole they will likely find themselves worse off, through higher costs. Leaving creates more problems than it solves, and the problems it solves, are resolvable in other ways.

 

[Baldseagull]

Challenged or asking why, same difference, I countered that The Guardian cited it as a likely reason, be honest you and the your mates thought there was a whiff of racism.

You love the uneducated stat though, it's snobbery at its worst, you seem to forget that less qualified doesn't necessarily mean less successful, or that it makes them thickos, your favourite jibe, yeah nice work.

You raised the issue of education levels.

 

[Baldseagull]

issue overlooked is that Barnier is no position to make threats or apply punishment. he is a civil servent representing 27 nations, anything he does has to be signed off by them. many of them did not care for the tone or implications, with the idea punishment could be decided on and applied outside established EU rules making them uncomfortable.

If we are outside of any EU regulatory system, and do as Boris suggests, just volunteer to be like them but without any binding agreement to do so, they are going to have to look at what reactions they should have to UK divergence, they can't have the courts decide if we wont be bound to their decisions. Calling it a punishment though is inflammatory, sanction is probably the appropriate word.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

You dont need to go to university to understand the difference between IN or OUT.

Ah, the good old education thing again.

It is the case that highly educated people voted remain in disproportionate numbers with a mirror effect among less educated people. It is reasonable to ask why this statistic exists. I claim no expertise but I would have thought that one reason is that people with lower levels of formal education tend to be less interested in politics and are more likely to be persuaded by the snappy, beguiling and over-simplified messages of the Leave campaign. They are not stupid to do so.

A larger reason perhaps is that people with fewer qualifications under their belt tend (that word again) to have more constricted lives. Fewer opportunities. Less mobility. Less money for that matter. When people are invited to give the government a slap those with restricted life-chances are far more likely to do so. I don't blame them really. But it has nothing to do with Europe.

 

[vegster]

Michel Barnier forced to apologise over 'inappropriate' Brexit punishment clause

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook

#clownstotheleftofme

I wondered where you had got to recently. Did Boris The Clown apologise for his " Go Whistle " comment ?

 

[Baldseagull]

isnt this reflective of the wider population? no point making this about internal Tory party splits, Labour are split, and the country was split too. May cant go forward without one side or the other crying foul, and she certainly doesnt have leadership qualities to drive a decisive path. i wonder though what sort of exit would be acceptable for remainers, so that there is some sort of compromise to work with.

Freedom of movement and the single market is the major issue that prevents compromise.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Here is Guido's latest for you... perhaps more suited to the nasty Labour RACISTS thread:

https://order-order.com/2018/02/16/...paign-star-sent-n-word-jew-and-hitler-tweets/

Yes, I'm sure it is if I bothered to click on it and waste 3 seconds reading that obsessive, compulsive, right wing blogging drivel. Are there any nice pictures of Diane Abbott on there for you to stare at and dribble whilst your eyes swivel?

 

[Hampster Gull]

Challenged or asking why, same difference, I countered that The Guardian cited it as a likely reason, be honest you and the your mates thought there was a whiff of racism.

You love the uneducated stat though, it's snobbery at its worst, you seem to forget that less qualified doesn't necessarily mean less successful, or that it makes them thickos, your favourite jibe, yeah nice work.

There is a difference, look it up.

You have a chip on both shoulders. I’ve said nothing on the uneducated debate, but you drag it up again here and use against me. It’s almost as if you protest too much.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

There is absolutely ZERO evidence that EU immigration has depressed wage levels. As you say, this was the sales pitch. And the Government's own analysis shows the poorer regions, which voted Leave, will be worse off as a result of Brexit. The only silver lining in this whole sorry episode is that at least the impact of the stupidity of their decision will fall mainly on Brexiteers. London, the South East and the South West will be relatively unaffected. But obviously this will mean the North-South divide will be exacerbated, we will become a more divided society, and the gap between rich and poor will increase further. Well done those who voted Leave!

Not true.

This paper asks whether immigration has any impact on wages. It answers this question by considering the variation of wages and immigration across regions, occupations, and time. Occupations turn out to be a relatively important dimension. Once the occupational breakdown is incorporated into a regional analysis of immigration, the immigrant-native ratio has a significant small impact on the average occupational wage rates of that region.Closer examination reveals that the biggest effect is in the semi/unskilled services sector, where a 10 percentage point rise in the proportion of immigrants is associated with a 2 percent reduction in pay. Where immigrants come from — EU or non-EU — appears to have no impact on our economy wide results...

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/wor...n-on-occupational-wages-evidence-from-britain

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...down-wages-offered-to-British-jobseekers.html

Before some tedious bore says you don't listen to Bank of England /experts etc .. Analysing data from a 23 year time period is a bit different to guessing about the future effects of an event that has no precedent.

Also not a surprise you're a believer in the latest 15 year predictions from the very same people who forecast we would currently be in recession with over half a million more unemployed.

 

[Titanic]

Yes, I'm sure it is if I bothered to click on it and waste 3 seconds reading that obsessive, compulsive, right wing blogging drivel. Are there any nice pictures of Diane Abbott on there for you to stare at and dribble whilst your eyes swivel?

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

Far left loons hostile to sources that regularly expose legitimate newsworthy stories shock.

Guido is turning into the moral watchdog for Corbyn's ragbag, motley crew even the Guardian follow where he leads ...

CORBYN INTERVIEW REMOVED FROM GUARDIAN WEBSITE “PENDING INVESTIGATION”

https://order-order.com/2018/02/16/corbyn-interview-removed-guardian-website-pending-investigation/

 

[pastafarian]

Michel Barnier forced to apologise over 'inappropriate' Brexit punishment clause

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook

#clownstotheleftofme

Probably best May meets leaders who can bend the ear of EU bigwigs.More likely to get things done than a chat with Barnier.

P.S. free cunning fergus

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

There is absolutely ZERO evidence that EU immigration has depressed wage levels. As you say, this was the sales pitch. And the Government's own analysis shows the poorer regions, which voted Leave, will be worse off as a result of Brexit. The only silver lining in this whole sorry episode is that at least the impact of the stupidity of their decision will fall mainly on Brexiteers. London, the South East and the South West will be relatively unaffected. But obviously this will mean the North-South divide will be exacerbated, we will become a more divided society, and the gap between rich and poor will increase further. Well done those who voted Leave!

simple Simon says ,
regards
DR

 

[pastafarian]

There is absolutely ZERO evidence that EU immigration has depressed wage levels.!

my further education was a Bricklaying apprenticeship, my wages were hit when the accession countries gained access.

one of your fellow remainers must be lying then.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qd8oX5NJt84
regards
DR

 

[Titanic]

Probably best May meets leaders who can bend the ear of EU bigwigs.More likely to get things done than a chat with Barnier.

P.S. free cunning fergus

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43071696

Theresa May to hold talks with Angela Merkel in Berlin

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

We didn't expect all those Polish plumbers, admits Tony Blair aide ...
www.dailymail.co.uk/.../We-didn-t-expect-Polish-plumbers-admits-Blair-aide-Senior-.
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Migration plan lets Polish plumbers stay for two years | News | The Times
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/.../migration-plan-lets-polish-plumbers-stay-two-years-2zsg6...
25 Oct 2017 - Polish and Romanian tradesmen should be allowed into the UK as skilled workers for only two to three years in order to curb immigration, a study on post-Brexit.
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Disappointed, listened to Boris and still can't see the sunny uplands. First five minutes he spent telling us what remainers fear, he was pretty accurate there, then said nothing to dissuade me that those fears are real and justified.

YES, BECAUSE YOU STOPPED LISTENING..................... it's called selective hearing
regards
DR