[Politics] Brexit

[soistes]

Referendum debate kicking off on Ditchling Rd today ....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

Even if it was true, and it isn't, that EVERYONE was £4,000 worse off a year it we were out then we are all be worse off by the same amount . In which case all of the service providers and sellers would have to take that into account when trying-ish to to compete effectively. Net result? No one notices.

Besides we've all been hammered by the financial crash for so long, what's another year.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

If you went back 20 years and said this was Calais in 2016 most people would be shocked. This is a product of the EU's terrible border system.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/674360/Calais-Jungle-mass-brawl-stabbings-migrant-crisis-France

 

[yxee]

But it's been pointed out on here and elsewhere that concern about immigration tends to be higher in areas, such as Cumbria or UKIP-voting Clacton, which have lower than average numbers of immigrants. London boroughs such as Hackney with highish immigrant numbers are among the most Europhile in the land. Sussex, with relatively few immigrants, tends towards Eurosceptism. On balance, people with the least personal experience of immigrants tend to be the ones who complain most about them. Read into this what you will.

There is a tipping point once immigrants become the majority, since they're obviously going to be in favour of immigration.

Here's my theory (which could be wrong):

Low immigration areas: pro-immigration, not aware of downsides
Medium immigration areas: anti-immigration, aware of downsides
High immigration areas: pro-immigration, since immigrants outweigh others and are pro-immigration.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

I don't think people have grasped how lucky they are to get this referendum, especially on the Remain side. There are probably millions of people across the EU who would snap your hand off to get the same opportunity, unfortunately for them they are stuck in political union, possibly for life.

The Referendum is a chance to make a real difference to this country, make a new start. A chance to police our borders properly, a chance to bring in the best, a chance to bring in people who will make a positive contribution to our society and move this country forwards.

 

[Kuipers Supporters Club]

The one that did me is as follows:

There are three presidents of the European Union - none of them are elected by the British people, and as a result we can't remove them from power. It all comes down to democracy and control .

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

The one that did me is as follows:

There are three presidents of the European Union - none of them are elected by the British people, and as a result we can't remove them from power. It all comes down to democracy and control .

I've seem to have misplaced my polling cards for the election of the Queen, David Cameron and Jeremy Heywood; can you remind me when the public vote is/was?

 

[drew]

The one that did me is as follows:

There are three presidents of the European Union - none of them are elected by the British people, and as a result we can't remove them from power. It all comes down to democracy and control .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidency_of_the_Council_of_the_European_Union

This might help you!

 

[drew]

I've seem to have misplaced my polling cards for the election of the Queen, David Cameron and Jeremy Heywood; can you remind me when the public vote is/was?

Excellent riposte..

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Practically if you have a shared border it makes sense to have a shared group of people who can defend said border. Wouldn't a navy be particularly useful in stemming the refugee crisis? Or some sort of organised command? This is how NATO works.

Actually how NATO works isn't how an EU army would work. NATO isn't an army - it's a collection of nations who have agreed to use their own armed forces in a collective protection pact. NATO does not dictate to individual members their defence policy. Each member has only one obligation which is to aid any other member who is attacked. There is also the expectation that each member spends 2% of their GDP on defence but it's not a requirement.

The idea that has been muted for an EU army is to have one that is controlled by the polices of the EU - i.e. the EU will have a defence policy. Members would be obliged to follow that policy. So if for example the EU decided to bomb Syria all members would be obliged to follow that. If NATO decides to do the same then currently it is up to individual NATO members to decide if they wish to participate in the action.

Having an army and a defence policy is indicative of statehood - something the EU is somewhat keen to become .... a state.

 

[Hampster Gull]

This is absolutely priceless, you are unashamedly for a full and free European wide labour market, that needs to be opened up further (that sounds like TTIP to me) but don't consider yourself a Tory?

I hate to break this to you..........but if you had any sense of solidarity with the traditional working class in this country you would not support an institution that imposes a policy that grinds their economic interests into dust on the alter of "competition".

I am not particularly interested in populist policies, those that the tories or the left occasionally push. Simple liberalism, with a small l.

The "working class" as you put it are best served through a successful and growing economy to drive jobs and wealth with strong investment in education to enhance opportunities.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The "working class" as you put it are best served through a successful and growing economy to drive jobs and wealth with strong investment in education to enhance opportunities.

Spot on. And a balanced mixed economy, not the heavy reliance on finance and service sectors of the U.K. Chuck in a living wage to protect those at the bottom and there you have it. A nice economy, jobs for all, no one being denied opportunity. Much preferable to the totally unimaginative roll up the draw bridge approach of some.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Spot on. And a balanced mixed economy, not the heavy reliance on finance and service sectors of the U.K. Chuck in a living wage to protect those at the bottom and there you have it.

Yes, i will take that

 

[Deleted member 22389]

I am not particularly interested in populist policies, those that the tories or the left occasionally push. Simple liberalism, with a small l.

The "working class" as you put it are best served through a successful and growing economy to drive jobs and wealth with strong investment in education to enhance opportunities.

Would agree with you, but we don't have the same number of manufacturing jobs as we used too. This growing economy is all about the service industry, which generally suits the type of people that are allowed to come here, it doesn't suit a young British Person who would may be like to move in to a trade such as Mechanical Engineering. Not everyone is suited to the service industry or an office job.

Manufacturing jobs have been replaced with Supermarkets, Takeaways and Coffee Shops. This is not a good economy in my opinion.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Would agree with you, but we don't have the same number of manufacturing jobs as we used too. This growing economy is all about the service industry, which generallysuits the type of people that are allowed to come here, it doesn't suit a young British Person, who would may be like to move in to say a trade such as Mechanical Engineering. Not everyone is suited to the service industry or an office job.

Manufacturing jobs have been replaced with Supermarkets, Takeaways and Coffee Shops

Agree we need a stronger manufacturing sector. We are superb at the high end specialist engineering and world leaders but its relatively niche. If we can grow that it would be superb

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Spot on. And a balanced mixed economy, not the heavy reliance on finance and service sectors of the U.K. Chuck in a living wage to protect those at the bottom and there you have it. A nice economy, jobs for all, no one being denied opportunity. Much preferable to the totally unimaginative roll up the draw bridge approach of some.

Where would Germany be without it's manufacturing base?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Agree we need a stronger manufacturing sector. We are superb at the high end specialist engineering and world leaders but its relatively niche. If we can grow that it would be superb

I agree with you BUT I've not seen anyone explain how we can compete against low wage competition from China etc - steel being a perfect example where we just can't make a product cheaper enough to compete.

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

Where would Germany be without it's manufacturing base?

Nowhere....wish ours was half as good......it can be

 

[Lincoln Imp]

At what point in terms of numbers or otherwise do you think there should perhaps be some effort to restrict unrestricted migration to the UK, as I am sure there are probably a billion with a worthwhile story

Of course you cannot answer, as you suddenly become another Nigel Farage ..... just further upstream .......

Yes, if millions and millions of people wanted to go to countries which had no jobs for them - which I don't think they would - then controls would be needed. I see free movement as desirable, not a religion. But I predict those controls won't be needed - while the UK job market is presently able to offer opportunities to other EU citizens this won't last forever. The boot could be on the other foot by the time my grandchildren are considering where to pursue their careers.

One could ask people who believe in free movement within the United Kingdom - which I guess is all of us - at what point they would stop people from other parts of the country moving to overcrowded and rather expensive Sussex. I know you disagree about free market and I understand your concerns. I just don't agree with them.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

There is a tipping point once immigrants become the majority, since they're obviously going to be in favour of immigration.

Here's my theory (which could be wrong):

Low immigration areas: pro-immigration, not aware of downsides
Medium immigration areas: anti-immigration, aware of downsides
High immigration areas: pro-immigration, since immigrants outweigh others and are pro-immigration.

Good theory; doesn't match the facts.