[Politics] Brexit

[GT49er]

Averting economic catastrophe by remaining in the EU is the one I'm most fond of.

Ah, we're back to the economics is the be all and end all argument again then. The remainers best shot ................. actually, it's their only shot.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

But tea comes from outside the EU and I don't want to pay the tariff Can we divine from German cocoa powder?

Better leave the EU then so we can strike a tariff free deal with India

But until then only if it's EU approved .. Directive 2000/36/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 23 June 2000 relating to cocoa and chocolate products intended for human consumption .. Cocoa powder.

 

[The Rivet]

Pace palm all you like Drew. Sarcasm maybe the lowest form of wit and we are both reasonably good at it.

 

[drew]

This does beg a question though.
Corbyn wants to remain as its the only way to protect workers rights,female rights etc(allegedly)
When he is PM in 2020 why would he set about eroding these rights if there was a brexit? Doesnt he trust himself?

I suspect he is not worried about his government (or any other Labour leader's government) changing employment law to the detriment of workers but the fact that the EU could prevent, for example, a Tory government, from introducing legislation that takes away workers rights.

 

[The Rivet]

I suspect he is not worried about his government (or any other Labour leader's government) changing employment law to the detriment of workers but the fact that the EU could prevent, for example, a Tory government, from introducing legislation that takes away workers rights.

What rights, come on spell it out! Tell me what exactly are your workers rights? Don't assume I know. List them please.
Don't google them.

 

[GT49er]

I suspect he is not worried about his government (or any other Labour leader's government) changing employment law to the detriment of workers but the fact that the EU could prevent, for example, a Tory government, from introducing legislation that takes away workers rights.

I think you'll find that the erosion of employees' rights during Thatcher's regime (whilst in the EU) puts the lie to that.

 

[5ways]

Better leave the EU then so we can strike a tariff free deal with India

But until then only if it's EU approved .. Directive 2000/36/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 23 June 2000 relating to cocoa and chocolate products intended for human consumption .. Cocoa powder.

But Modi told us he wants us to remain in the EU so that the UK can be India's entry point into Europe.

 

[The Rivet]

Going to bed. Pretty sad representation from the 'inners' tonight. Enjoyed the debate and some slight slanging match. Night, Night.

 

[pastafarian]

I suspect he is not worried about his government (or any other Labour leader's government) changing employment law to the detriment of workers but the fact that the EU could prevent, for example, a Tory government, from introducing legislation that takes away workers rights.

I think the EU being able to prevent our democratically elected governments (Tory or Labour) from introducing legislation rather hits the nail on the head as far as democratic accountability and sovereignty goes.

 

[GT49er]

But Modi told us he wants us to remain in the EU so that the UK can be India's entry point into Europe.

And if we don't he'll cut off his nose to spite his ace?


Don't think so ..............................

 

[JC Footy Genius]

It says that he is on their website. It might be different now but he was in that role when he helped write and produce the pamphlet.

Can't be bothered to look through everyone else's bios but I did read Gerry's bit in the pamphlet. It's an awful lot of supposition and insinuation, but not a lot of useful facts. It really boils down to: the EU implement laws that have an impact on UK businesses, London is really competitive today, Brexit could lead to new opportunities. None of which are any particular surprise, but also not backed up by any decent data.

The most worrying bit though was "...it is hard to imagine London not being the main financial centre in Europe...". I would have though that it wouldn't take much to imagine London not being the main financial centre in Europe, especially if the UK leaves the EU as that removes the political barriers to doing so.

That's rather a quick and dismissive assessment of their case. But then again I don't hold much store of any economists Brexit opinions for or against.

 

[GT49er]

I think the EU being able to prevent our democratically elected governments (Tory or Labour) from introducing legislation rather hits the nail on the head as far as democratic accountability and sovereignty goes.

Best riposte of the night! Brilliant stuff.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

But Modi told us he wants us to remain in the EU so that the UK can be India's entry point into Europe.

Well perhaps we should stay in then, being an entry point for foreign nations is certainly one of my top priorities. Wouldn't Greece be a better entry point .. it's a bit nearer?

 

[5ways]

And if we don't he'll cut off his nose to spite his ace?


Don't think so ..............................

More likely he'll shift to another country with unfettered access to the European internal market, the largest and richest single market on the planet. He could try...Ireland, I suppose. He will still want to sell and trade with us, of course, but the main focus and investment will be on the market with 20% of world GDP, not 3, and with 500 million consumers, not 60. Like with most things we will shuffle down the pecking order.

 

[jgmcdee]

That's rather a quick and dismissive assessment of their case. But then again I don't hold much store of any economists Brexit opinions for or against.

As I said, I only read 1 of the 7 or 8 pieces in detail. I did go back afterwards looking for something with a bit more data behind it, and the Minford piece gave a very strong set of conclusions. Unfortunately his piece was headed up with a large number of assumptions that were dubious to say the least. They were based on the idea that the UK would be able to buy and sell at "world prices", but unless I've missed something to do so the entire world would have to drop all tariffs for products and services, imports and exports.

And to be clear, I'm with you on not setting much store with the economists' predictions in general. Not so much because of how they reach their conclusions but because the big shocks are external factors (oil prices, 2007/8, etc.) I do, however, think that the UK's financial position is far more precarious than many people want to believe and the common view that London will continue to be a hub for financial service because it has been until now is hubris and misplaced.

 

[GT49er]

More likely he'll shift to another country with unfettered access to the European internal market, the largest and richest single market on the planet. He could try...Ireland, I suppose. He will still want to sell and trade with us, of course, but the main focus and investment will be on the market with 20% of world GDP, not 3, and with 500 million consumers, not 60. Like with most things we will shuffle down the pecking order.

No. Don't think so - Anglo-Indian ties are tight - I spite of some trying to say that the British rule in India was totally evil. Some of it was bad, but was in line with the times, and some of the results are still treasured in India now.

Railways:
Legal system:
Democracy. -

- to name but a few. We'll do fine with them.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Ah, we're back to the economics is the be all and end all argument again then. The remainers best shot ................. actually, it's their only shot.

Without a good economy the UK would be totally and utterly ****ed though. It's all very well talking about security and sovereignty and the ability to pass your own laws but if you can't afford to pay for these it's a pointless discussion. Economics has to be top of the pile in my opinion as every other item and desire feeds off of it.

As an aside I feel this is the wrong time for this referendum. Why not have it when the UK is a position of economic strength? Surely this would be better for the Brexit lot as surely more would vote out if they knew the country had a better chance of weathering the exit fall out? You had one shot at this is a generation so why time it for now?

 

[Maldini]

whose GDP figures do you rely on in the first place? would appear the whole prediction game is a bit of a lottery

View attachment 75131

I love this post.Totally sums up why we need to ignore economic forecasts for both sides.

It's so much easier for the Leave camp to trust in why they want to leave.Immigration-It's a fact that thousands of people are moving to this country from abroad. Sovereignty-
It's a fact that the EU is making more and more of our laws.For the Remain camp it's all about the economy however for them it's impossible to trust/know if we are better off in or out.

 

[Maldini]

If they did have the same attitude we'd be well and truly up shit creek. Yours is not the best anology.


"90% of start ups fail"
http://www.forbes.com/sites/neilpat...t-you-need-to-know-about-the-10/#9c5548755e19

"8 out of 10 businesses fail"
http://www.forbes.com/sites/ericwag...ons-8-out-of-10-businesses-fail/#fa755c45e3c6

Do not reply to any of my post's.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Your employment opportunities in Europe wouldnt diminish if there was a Brexit, you may have to get a piece of paper to cover your entitlement but hardly such an inconvenience you would give up bothering all together surely?

I totally disagree with this. I am surrounded by start ups, small private businesses and the like. Whilst big corporations will no doubt still recruit there is little chance smaller businesses will even consider taking on a person from outside the Eu if there is paper work. The small and private business world is much more fluid and here-and-now and you will be at a disadvantage if you can't start for a few weeks due to paper work. If you don't believe me jump on a plane and see for yourself right now. I will introduce you to a variety of companies and some schools, and you can ask them yourself what they think (I already have spoken to many as there are 72 based in my office alone) and also let you ponder why they employ many more EU citizens than they do non.

Berlin is a hot bed of creative and digital start ups and if I was a young coder trying to make my way in the world I would not want to be at any lesser advantage than my fellow Europeans....and a seemingly small thing like obtaining paper work will swing it. Why would you employ someone with obstacles as opposed to someone without?

Please, jump on a plane and take your pick of any small business and find out for yourself. I'll even take you for lunch so you can try one of the "inedible burgers" I post photos of.





Sent from the horses mouth.