[Politics] Brexit

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

May has little if any authority in her party and therefore little ability to steer the country. We are stumbling to whatever

So, do you thing Brexit will happen? My feeling now is 60:40 says, no it won't. Parliament won't vote for a year zero flounce, and May and her team of imbeciles don't have the vision or diplomatic skills to negociate better. And the Europeans are playing hard ball. They want us to hard brexit (despite the comments of some deluded people that we are more important to them than they are to us). I agree we you we have a governing party who has lost the country. And I'm not saying that Jezza would fare any better. On his history, before surfing gloriously to Labour sainthood, he has achieved nothing more than sniffing Gerry Adams' breath.

 

[Hampster Gull]

So, do you thing Brexit will happen? My feeling now is 60:40 says, no it won't. Parliament won't vote for a year zero flounce, and May and her team of imbeciles don't have the vision or diplomatic skills to negociate better. And the Europeans are playing hard ball. They want us to hard brexit (despite the comments of some deluded people that we are more important to them than they are to us). I agree we you we have a governing party who has lost the country. And I'm not saying that Jezza would fare any better. On his history, before surfing gloriously to Labour sainthood, he has achieved nothing more than sniffing Gerry Adams' breath.

Agree with all those points HWT. To your question will Brexit happen, yes, I think it will. I suspect it will be a humbling experience for the bulk of the country, except for those who are ideologically driven for whatever reason.

 

[Baldseagull]

Perhaps you should ask the original poster?Yet another poster with 2003 join date.Some of them seem to have multiple identities,and forget who they have logged in as,which can be amusing.At a guess,they have one login for work,one for mobile,and one for home pc.They always get likes for their posts,which are mainly just sarcasm or bullcrap,so bull themselves up.

View attachment 91217

Please let us know if he gets back to you.

He did at least provide a link so that it was easy to see how he made his error.

 

[Brighton Mod]

To be fair to [MENTION=11191]Pretty pink fairy[/MENTION], he said long ago in a chat with me that he's content to see us walk after the 2 years with no deal. If that's what someone wants then no amount of griping about the process will have any currency. It doesn't matter to such folk how well the negociations are going.

However..... I am not sure May is prepared to do a 'year zero' Brexit. More to the point, it is clear that parliament (including increasing numbers of her own party) won't let her. So....regardless of the referendum result, unless the negociations provide something acceptable to the mainstream of MPs, Brexit will not happen now.

Rather than Brexiters being complacent, if I were a mad keen leaver I'd be quite worried now. Sorry to bring bad news. It won't affect me either way so I have no personal axe to grind (although my preference is remain). Interesting times.

If Brexit did not go ahead, I believe it would be the end of the two party system in this country as we know it. 52% voted for it in a referendum. if the politicians between themselves contrive to a different outcome, then we would see the unheard and unrepresented of this country vent their fury on Parliament. Labour would collapse to the advantage of the Liberals who have been a constant remain party (so called intelligencia, intelectual thinkers etc) and the Tories would collapse n favour of UKIP (remember UKIP did not contest over 200 seats to give May an advantage and she still got it wrong) who would also strip votes from Labour. A non Brexit would have catastrophic implications for both The Tory and Labour Parties.
So whilst the press and media strives constantly to undermine the result of the referendum the two mainstream parties are the ones who be punished for the politicians failing to deliver on the request of the people.

 

[Hampster Gull]

If Brexit did not go ahead, I believe it would be the end of the two party system in this country as we know it. 52% voted for it in a referendum. if the politicians between themselves contrive to a different outcome, then we would see the unheard and unrepresented of this country vent their fury on Parliament. Labour would collapse to the advantage of the Liberals who have been a constant remain party (so called intelligencia, intelectual thinkers etc) and the Tories would collapse n favour of UKIP (remember UKIP did not contest over 200 seats to give May an advantage and she still got it wrong) who would also strip votes from Labour. A non Brexit would have catastrophic implications for both The Tory and Labour Parties.
So whilst the press and media strives constantly to undermine the result of the referendum the two mainstream parties are the ones who be punished for the politicians failing to deliver on the request of the people.

52% is nothing. But I would say that we are desperately in need of a centre ground party

 

[nicko31]

Question...

Do any Brexiteers have a sensible solution for the Irish border issue, in the extremely unlikely event we don't get a tariff free EU trade deal (for free of course)

 

[GT49er]

52% is nothing. But I would say that we are desperately in need of a centre ground party

And this centre ground party would stand exactly where on the subject of Brexit? Half in half out?

 

[Hampster Gull]

And this centre ground party would stand exactly where on the subject of Brexit? Half in half out?

Who knows. But an infighting Tory party incompetent at governing is not tenable for long and a hard left state ownership Labour party is only a short term option until people think that we are back in the 1970s

 

[Brighton Mod]

This Brexit thing has resulted in the U.K. being a laughing stock. The government need to get a grip, are we going for hard Brexit (for those who did the simpleton line what does that mean, grow up) or soft Brexit. This half way house just shows there was no direction during the Tory infighting that led to the vote, nor a clear view from the public from the referendum. Let’s do one or the other quickly and rebuild, but it needs a strong govt (and put money in the next general election voting in Jeremy). May and her merry band of upper class fools are a laughing stock and we are getting completely turned over. The EU agenda is now our agenda. All so predictable for those with foresight.

I'm not sure how you see the Irish border question, but if I lived in landlocked Eire I would be extremly concerned with the hard ball stance of barnier. If a zero sum outcome comes to pass then prices will only go up for the population as tariffs will be applied to everything that comes through the UK, or will the EU be prepared to a 'Berlin Airlift' strategy. Even today many from Eire would have crossed the border to purchase goods in Northern Ireland, because of the price so what happens if theres no agreement and a hard border?
Our diplomats, civil service and consulates have over 500 years experience of negotiation and democracy, whilst the Europeans have had, Napoleaon, Garibaldi, Bismarck, Metternich, Hitler, Tito, Franco, The Greek Generals so their history is not outstanding. I wish that some would show some faith in our negotiators and stop tryig to predict the outcome without having any real knowledge of what is actually happening.
As for feeling that we are a laughing stock, you sound like a very sensitive teenager,speaking with an Italian suppier ecently he cited the Germans as being central to the EU and on the side of the banks and big business, TTIP is the obvious and prime example.

 

[pastafarian]

EU bot/troll who has contempt for our democracy complaining about foreign interference and contempt for our democracy ... brilliant

Its nice to see at last on this thread some common ground we all agree on, namely no one wants Ruskies or other foreign rotters interfering, trying to manipulate or trying to influence our voting.

 

[The Clamp]

I'm not sure how you see the Irish border question, but if I lived in landlocked Eire I would be extremly concerned with the hard ball stance of barnier. If a zero sum outcome comes to pass then prices will only go up for the population as tariffs will be applied to everything that comes through the UK, or will the EU be prepared to a 'Berlin Airlift' strategy. Even today many from Eire would have crossed the border to purchase goods in Northern Ireland, because of the price so what happens if theres no agreement and a hard border?
Our diplomats, civil service and consulates have over 500 years experience of negotiation and democracy, whilst the Europeans have had, Napoleaon, Garibaldi, Bismarck, Metternich, Hitler, Tito, Franco, The Greek Generals so their history is not outstanding. I wish that some would show some faith in our negotiators and stop tryig to predict the outcome without having any real knowledge of what is actually happening.
As for feeling that we are a laughing stock, you sound like a very sensitive teenager,speaking with an Italian suppier ecently he cited the Germans as being central to the EU and on the side of the banks and big business, TTIP is the obvious and prime example.

But why don't we have any knowledge of what is actually happening? As a nation we were asked to vote, do you not think that we should now be kept abreast of negotiations? We have been abandoned by the very government that asked us to decide.

It's no surprise people speculate and look to all sorts of sources for information. We are not unpatriotic for asking questions.

We are not naysayers for asking questions. We are not moaning by asking questions. The very questions our government should be providing answers to.

And yes, you may accuse of us whining for asking such questions but I sincerely hope that Leave voters start asking some questions in a couple of years time when all the promises they believe they were voting for are not fulfilled.

Then, just maybe then you may have a slight empathy with the questions we raise now.

 

[Brighton Mod]

52% is nothing. But I would say that we are desperately in need of a centre ground party

52% represented a vote of the non represented, the un represented along with those who felt that they had been lied to by politicians of both parties on the extent of immigration and the very same politicians who drove talking about immigration to being racist. So a population who have been unequivacably lied to on Brexit by politicians from all parties will change the face of the next general election, their votes will be based on perception and not necessarily policies or manifestos. For me Brexit and the next general election will be a watershed moment in British politics.

 

[pastafarian]

To be fair to [MENTION=11191]Pretty pink fairy[/MENTION], he said long ago in a chat with me that he's content to see us walk after the 2 years with no deal. If that's what someone wants then no amount of griping about the process will have any currency. It doesn't matter to such folk how well the negociations are going.

However..... I am not sure May is prepared to do a 'year zero' Brexit. More to the point, it is clear that parliament (including increasing numbers of her own party) won't let her. So....regardless of the referendum result, unless the negociations provide something acceptable to the mainstream of MPs, Brexit will not happen now.

Rather than Brexiters being complacent, if I were a mad keen leaver I'd be quite worried now. Sorry to bring bad news. It won't affect me either way so I have no personal axe to grind (although my preference is remain). Interesting times.

Oddly,I havnt heard an announcement that The European Withdrawal Bill, already passed to committee stage is being dropped mid-bill because Brexit will not happen now.

 

[GT49er]

Who knows. But an infighting Tory party incompetent at governing is not tenable for long and a hard left state ownership Labour party is only a short term option until people think that we are back in the 1970s

I find it ironic that a remainer (which I believe you to be - apologies if I'm wrong on that) who presumably endorses his fellow remainers constant insistence that leave voters didn't know what they were voting for and don't know any details of what we want out of the negotiations, should advocate a solution of the problem in the form of a new party without even knowing whether it will be pro-Brexit or pro-EU!

 

[easynow]

Russian troll struggling to be more bigoted than typical internet user

Despite being paid to stir up trouble on news websites, Alexander Petrov’s posts are never more furious and unhinged than genuine opinions on topics like immigration and the EU.

St Petersburg-based Petrov said: “My job is to post lies and propaganda to weaken Europe, but sometimes I wonder why I bother with all these twats spouting rubbish themselves.

“Yesterday I lied that the EU wanted uncontrolled immigration, but then ‘Wigan Lass’ posted ‘Nuke the Brussels NAZIS + every foreign shitehole then invent a disease that only kills the French!!!’ She got 280 ‘recommends’ and I only got 11.

“Today I was defending Putin by saying we need strong leaders, but when I got to Spectator comments I discovered they already love him, although he was ‘not as good as Hitler’.

“After that I thought ‘**** it’ and claimed the Queen was going to start wearing a burqa. Lots of Daily Mail readers said ‘Nice one for telling the truth, mate’.

“I’m only doing this for the money and had hoped to visit the UK one day, but after finding out how many ignorant wankers live there I think I’ll give it a miss.”

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/...ted-than-typical-internet-user-20171115139138

 

[nicko31]

Its nice to see at last on this thread some common ground we all agree on, namely no one wants Ruskies or other foreign rotters interfering, trying to manipulate or trying to influence our voting.

Yeap agree with you, the words getting around about Putin and co..

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...a10ed11ecf5_story.html?utm_term=.1d14e6ca3e30

 

[pastafarian]

Yeap agree with you, the words getting around about Putin and co..

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...a10ed11ecf5_story.html?utm_term=.1d14e6ca3e30

Substitute "rising alarm" with meh

 

[Brighton Mod]

But why don't we have any knowledge of what is actually happening? As a nation we were asked to vote, do you not think that we should now be kept updated of the negotiations? We have been abandoned by the very government that asked us to decide. It's no surprise people speculate and look to all sorts of sources for information. We are not unpatriotic for asking questions. We are not naysayers for asking questions. We are not moaning by asking questions. The very questions our government should be providing answers to.

No I don't, currently the media are on a feeding frenzy of speculation, rumour and conjecture. Cheap news, filling time on the television, pages in the press and editorial on the internet and its almost exclusively opinions based on whatever persuasion the writer or presenter is, Brexit or Remain.
Could you realistically provide a fact on anything that has happened in negotiations, it has not gone unnoticed to me that the EU negotiators are as tight lipped as our negotiators when it comes to real facts.

 

[The Clamp]

No I don't, currently the media are on a feeding frenzy of speculation, rumour and conjecture. Cheap news, filling time on the television, pages in the press and editorial on the internet and its almost exclusively opinions based on whatever persuasion the writer or presenter is, Brexit or Remain.
Could you realistically provide a fact on anything that has happened in negotiations, it has not gone unnoticed to me that the EU negotiators are as tight lipped as our negotiators when it comes to real facts.

May has disastrously pitted herself against the EU with her rhetoric. Almost declared war. I expect OUR government to keep us informed, not the EU who May , with her aggressive posturing has stumbled into conflict with.

 

[Brighton Mod]

May has disastrously pitted herself against the EU with her rhetoric. Almost declared war. I expect OUR government to keep us informed, not the EU who May , with her aggressive posturing has stumbled into conflict with.

and Barnier, Tusk and Junkers have not done the same? the EU is smarting because it and its policy makers have been rejected by the British people, are they really likely to react in any other way, the dont actually run a democracy in Brussels.