[Politics] Brexit

[Lincoln Imp]

My understanding of a soft Brexit has always been Norway.

 

[5ways]

I see Lloyd Blankfein has just thrown the cat among the pigeons. if it wasn't so desperate, it would be funny.....

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That sound you can hear is tax revenue getting hoovered up by Frankfurt (Paris and Amsterdam too)

 

[5ways]

Simple indeed. A couple of problems though. You can't stay in/be a member of the Single (internal) Market unless you submit too ECJ rulings. This is a central pillar of the EU construct, there's no negotating this point. I also remember that nice Mr Cameron popping over to Berlin pre-referendum, cap in hand asking Merkel for some leeway on Free movement. The answer .. Nein. The EU have made it crystal clear on numerous occasions that we cannot cherry pick parts of EU membership so your version of Soft Brexit is a non starter.

What we had was a cherry-picked membership

 

[GT49er]

So you don't believe in protecting the sovereignty of parliament. That's pretty poor. Or do you have some other axe to grind?

I am fully in favour of the sovereignty of Parliament, thank you. That sovereignty was responsibly executed when they voted to give the electorate the right to vote on whether to leave the EU or remain. I do have an axe to grind with attention seeking busy-bodies who seek to disrupt, delay - or even overturn if possible - the Brexit process; especially when they obviously lie by claiming that they're not trying to hinder Brexit in any way. Huh! If you believe that, you'll believe anything. Still, you are a remainer.......................

 

[Two Professors]

I see Lloyd Blankfein has just thrown the cat among the pigeons. if it wasn't so desperate, it would be funny.....

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If he thinks the weather in Frankfurt today is great,then he is delusional.He certainly won't be missed here.In fact,I hope a lot of other bankers join him there.Excuse spelling mistake.

 

[Two Professors]

So it's because she's a woman! I hadn't even considered the race implications, surely they don't play a part in why someone would dislike her do they? Just misogyny then.

No, it's because she is like thrush,very irritating and annoying.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I am fully in favour of the sovereignty of Parliament, thank you. That sovereignty was responsibly executed when they voted to give the electorate the right to vote on whether to leave the EU or remain. I do have an axe to grind with attention seeking busy-bodies who seek to disrupt, delay - or even overturn if possible - the Brexit process; especially when they obviously lie by claiming that they're not trying to hinder Brexit in any way. Huh! If you believe that, you'll believe anything. Still, you are a remainer.......................

But your brain doesn't comprehend,for whatever reason, is that folk can only do this through legal and sovereign means. The very same legal and sovereign means you claim you've got back. Get over it, you won....is how it goes I believe.

With the current idiots running the show you merely have to sit back and wait if you want to delay proceedings, the Tories are very good at this #WaitAlmostAYearBeforeTriggeringA50 #MisguidedElection

 

[CheeseRolls]

My understanding of a soft Brexit has always been Norway.

Worth bringing this one back.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

I'll Google later but I'm fairly familiar with the Danish referendums. What exactly is your objection to them? The Danish voted against being included in a developing policy of the EU and as a result were granted the exemptions they wanted. They confirmed their acceptance of these concessions in the second referendum. What, again, is your objection?

(I can't remember much about the Irish one but I believe it centred on what they saw as an assault on their neutrality. As I recall, they were similarly granted a special opt out.)

Second referenda tend to focus more on the fear of losing out due to not being 'in the centre' of Europe etc. First vote centres on loss of sovereignty etc but the second, with a sop for the wavering nos, gives a few concessions which undermine opposition. I suppose, in all honesty, if i liked the end result, perhaps i wouldn't object so much.

 

[GT49er]

But your brain doesn't comprehend,for whatever reason, is that folk can only do this through legal and sovereign means. The very same legal and sovereign means you claim you've got back. Get over it, you won....is how it goes I believe.

My brain comprehends extremely well, thank you, and yes, I am aware we won, and also that there are those who would like to sabotage Brexit.

With the current idiots running the show you merely have to sit back and wait if you want to delay proceedings, the Tories are very good at this #WaitAlmostAYearBeforeTriggeringA50 #MisguidedElection

Yes, for once I agree with you; they are a shambolic shower. If Cameron had had any guts, he would have activated Article 50 on the day after the referendum, before resigning, but no, he preferred to flounce out. And you're right, the election didn't help either.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Second referenda tend to focus more on the fear of losing out due to not being 'in the centre' of Europe etc. First vote centres on loss of sovereignty etc but the second, with a sop for the wavering nos, gives a few concessions which undermine opposition. I suppose, in all honesty, if i liked the end result, perhaps i wouldn't object so much.

That's mean-spirited to the point of misleading if I may say so. In both the Irish and Danish cases the reasons for the original No were addressed, with the result that the voters said Yes. Democracy in action surely? To the best of my recollection, the French double referendum was a bit of a stitch-up and proved that politicians can indeed refuse to take no for an answer. But it was an exception - the oft-repeated charge that the EU habitually "keeps asking until voters give the right answer" is just not true.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Wonder if it's crossed the minds of the Brexitears why those leading the charge for a hard solution are toffs, Boris, Jacob Rees Morgan, Farage etc. It's because they will seek to keep all the power in the hands of the ruling elite. I guess it's all ok because at least the year are British, they are our fools, they are our ruling elite, so it's all ok

 

[Lincoln Imp]

If Cameron had had any guts, he would have activated Article 50 on the day after the referendum, before resigning....

So it is your view that it would have been in the interests of the British people for Cameron to have set the clock ticking immediately before triggering a Tory leadership election and before preparations of any kind had been started, and even before the reshuffled cabinet had been appointed?

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

That's mean-spirited to the point of misleading if I may say so. In both the Irish and Danish cases the reasons for the original No were addressed, with the result that the voters said Yes. Democracy in action surely? To the best of my recollection, the French double referendum was a bit of a stitch-up and proved that politicians can indeed refuse to take no for an answer. But it was an exception - the oft-repeated charge that the EU habitually "keeps asking until voters give the right answer" is just not true.

Yeah, perhaps you are right. I find it hard to remember all the details as so much was so long ago. It is my impression though that the EU has not listened to the opposition to the slow creep of a United States Of Europe and that Brexit and possibly in the future even the Spanish situation are when the chickens come home to roost. I am sick of the fighting as in all honesty most of us just want the same things, but we don't always share the same idea about how to get them. I am worried that Brexit may do untold damage to our relationship with the EU and visa versa. I wish our politicians on both sides would act with a little more humility but then again I suppose they reflect societal attitudes.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Worth bringing this one back.
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Just shows shows how stupid this situation is. We were one of two not obliged to join the Euro, one of two with opt out of the Schengen Agreement, with Thatchers money refund but with all the benefits of the Customs Union and the EU.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Yeah, perhaps you are right. I find it hard to remember all the details as so much was so long ago. It is my impression though that the EU has not listened to the opposition to the slow creep of a United States Of Europe and that Brexit and possibly in the future even the Spanish situation are when the chickens come home to roost. I am sick of the fighting as in all honesty most of us just want the same things, but we don't always share the same idea about how to get them. I am worried that Brexit may do untold damage to our relationship with the EU and visa versa. I wish our politicians on both sides would act with a little more humility but then again I suppose they reflect societal attitudes.

We stand in different places but you and I have long agreed that the schism in our country is tragic. I no longer really feel part of it sadly.

 

[nicko31]

Just shows shows how stupid this situation is. We were one of two not obliged to join the Euro, one of two with opt out of the Schengen Agreement, with Thatchers money refund but with all the benefits of the Customs Union and the EU.

And for only 37p a day

 

[Hampster Gull]

And for only 37p a day

 

[GT49er]

So it is your view that it would have been in the interests of the British people for Cameron to have set the clock ticking immediately before triggering a Tory leadership election and before preparations of any kind had been started, and even before the reshuffled cabinet had been appointed?

Yes. It would have saved a lot of silly buggering about, arguments wasting Parliamentary time and tax payers' money and the tax payers' money we had to waste on legal arguments to quash that ghastly attention seeking rich woman who wanted to drag Brexit through the courts to try and delay or stop it. Might have focussed the negotiators on both sides to get their heads together and negotiate a bit quicker, instead of giving them the time and space to get them into the mess they're in now, where both sides need their heads banging together.

 

[GT49er]

............................................ I guess it's all ok because at least the year are British.....................................

You surely know how to present an erudite argument.............I've got no answer to that. Game, set and match.....................