[Politics] Brexit

[Deleted member 22389]

I voted to remain however now we leaving I am behind our goverment and anyone who thinks labour could get a better deal are totally mad the EU want to screw us as they are scared other EU states might want different deals or want to leave. If the EU had given David Cameron a better deal we might not be leaving the EU they also misread the British people's Feelings and situation.
By the way we are still defending Europe.
It's a shame what's happing in Malta.

Thanks for respecting the vote. It's just a shame some remainers can't see it the same way you do. What you have written here is the truth. Your right I was hoping Cameron would come back with something, he didn't. That said to me the EU wouldn't change, so I voted leave.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

let it roll off your tongue
The world of tomorrow is a world of empires

I do believe the world of tomorrow will have legalised marijuana....so at the very least you will not be arrested for what you're currently smoking.

 

[beorhthelm]

Of course the EU want a good deal, why wouldn't they? And they will do their best to get one for their people.

then why are they, at least publicly, not trying to do a deal? they are obstructing progression, because they fear a fair deal would be seen as "a la carte" and weaken the EU project. they want to be seen to extract the most money from the UK, because (apparently) thats the most important issue. Jens Gieer, MEP, vice chair of parliament budget committee in the Guardian today:

the EU’s interests may be better served by a no-deal divorce than by an agreement that puts its foundations at risk if Britain gets an “a la carte” Brexit. For the EU, no deal would in this case be better than a bad deal. And that’s not a bluff.

the EU project is so unified on a future with such prosperity together, yet they fear members would split if Britain is given a fair deal and be willing to go as far as to do no deal, to the detriment of all those causes they say are their priorities. they dont want the best for their people, they want to bludgeon through a political settlement.

seems if they're happy with not deal, we're happy with no deal, we should just forego the next 18mths of needless negotiation and set about putting in place the structures to replace a "no deal". (or in other words, agree an alternative deal. there is no such outcome as "no deal", its political posturing from both sides.)

 

[Lincoln Imp]

That's why i live in Oxford, people have half a brain cell. If Nissan goes at least they can all blame the EU

...and for similar reasons I am happy to be one of the most overwhelmingly remain-backing group of supporters in the Premier League.

It's good we allow the small minority among us to vent their rage and spleen on here.

 

[Jim D]

then why are they, at least publicly, not trying to do a deal? they are obstructing progression, because they fear a fair deal would be seen as "a la carte" and weaken the EU project. they want to be seen to extract the most money from the UK, because (apparently) thats the most important issue. Jens Gieer, MEP, vice chair of parliament budget committee in the Guardian today:


the EU project is so unified on a future with such prosperity together, yet they fear members would split if Britain is given a fair deal and be willing to go as far as to do no deal, to the detriment of all those causes they say are their priorities. they dont want the best for their people, they want to bludgeon through a political settlement.

seems if they're happy with not deal, we're happy with no deal, we should just forego the next 18mths of needless negotiation and set about putting in place the structures to replace a "no deal". (or in other words, agree an alternative deal. there is no such outcome as "no deal", its political posturing from both sides.)

As soon as the EU put the Irish border as a red line without an agreement on the trading arrangements it was obvious that we were heading for no deal. They don't want to do a deal and want us to take the blame.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

the EU project is so unified on a future with such prosperity together, yet they fear members would split if Britain is given a fair deal

This sentence doesn't make any sense. If they're "so unified" then they'll all be happy with whatever they all agree, fair deal or not. That's the very definition of being unified. I do appreciate this concept is difficult for some to grasp though.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

As soon as the EU put the Irish border as a red line without an agreement on the trading arrangements it was obvious that we were heading for no deal. They don't want to do a deal and want us to take the blame.

Time to threaten "the enemy" with the German car sales and Prosecco purchases I guess?

 

[CHAPPERS]

As soon as the EU put the Irish border as a red line without an agreement on the trading arrangements it was obvious that we were heading for no deal. They don't want to do a deal and want us to take the blame.

I guess the whole Ireland thing should have been discussed in the lead up the referendum eh?

Shamefully ignored.

 

[Jim D]

Time to threaten "the enemy" with the German car sales and Prosecco purchases I guess?

Why? All we need to do is start preparing seriously for no deal. This entire process has been mismanaged by us as we should have started with that assumption as soon as we saw what the EU were asking for. Even if we had agreed on the divorce bill and the continuing role of the ECJ in deciding on EU nationals in the UK this had to be a deal breaker.

 

[Jim D]

I guess the whole Ireland thing should have been discussed in the lead up the referendum eh?

Shamefully ignored.

Why? At that time the EU hadn't announced what their negotiating position would be. Why weren't they clearer and more open with us?

 

[CHAPPERS]

Why? At that time the EU hadn't announced what their negotiating position would be. Why weren't they clearer and more open with us?

Because we were the ones having the referendum?

 

[ManOfSussex]

Why? All we need to do is start preparing seriously for no deal. This entire process has been mismanaged by us as we should have started with that assumption as soon as we saw what the EU were asking for. Even if we had agreed on the divorce bill and the continuing role of the ECJ in deciding on EU nationals in the UK this had to be a deal breaker.

When are we going to start doing that then? Just in Kent alone - widening the M20, M2 and A2 and building lorry parks and customs checking facilities will take quite a bit of time - NIMBYS, planning permission, legal challenges, building it all etc. Need to recruit lots more stafff too for HMRC etc.

I'm surprised though because Owen Patterson MP for one said before and after the referendum there had to be a deal - had to be. German car workers, them needing the City of London etc, etc - no problem at all. He was a little bit like Jacob Rees-Mogg, talking about food banks and understanding the problems people face when they get ****d over by Universal Credit - he seemed to really, really know what he was talking about too, so I'm surprised, shocked even, that no deal is now looking likely.

 

[Jim D]

Because we were the ones having the referendum?

Oh really? I hadn't realised.

 

[Jim D]

When are we going to start doing that then? Just in Kent alone - widening the M20, M2 and A2 and building lorry parks and customs checking facilities will take quite a bit of time - NIMBYS, planning permission, legal challenges, building it all etc. Need to recruit lots more stafff too for HMRC etc.

I'm surprised though because Owen Patterson MP for one said before and after the referendum there had to be a deal - had to be. German car workers, them needing the City of London etc, etc - no problem at all. He was a little bit like Jacob Rees-Mogg, talking about food banks and understanding the problems people face when they get ****d over by Universal Credit - he seemed to really, really know what he was talking about too, so I'm surprised, shocked even, that no deal is now looking likely.

You're absolutely correct, these people eh? Of course, nobody else has ever exaggerated the advantages of voting for them in an election, ever!!

 

[ManOfSussex]

Oh really? I hadn't realised.

Why is it The EU's and Irish Government's fault? We're the ones leaving because we decided to. Everyone knew exactly what they were voting for, extracting ourselves from the last 40+ years of co-operation and integration could all be done easily inside of 2 years no worries, if not no deal is better than a bad deal, so what's the problem?

 

[ManOfSussex]

You're absolutely correct, these people eh? Of course, nobody else has ever exaggerated the advantages of voting for them in an election, ever!!

But Owen Patterson was saying everything would be rosy after the referendum result and also after Article 50 was invoked. 'What's not to like?' he said.

 

[beorhthelm]

This sentence doesn't make any sense. If they're "so unified" then they'll all be happy with whatever they all agree, fair deal or not. That's the very definition of being unified. I do appreciate this concept is difficult for some to grasp though.

it makes prefect sense, presumably you cant accept the contradiction it exposes, and which you highlight with your proposition. Are they unified and happy to move forward as one glorious state, or are there in fact fractures and schisms that would lead other members to want to leave? if the former, then UK leaving is no real problem, if the latter then i can see why EU leaders see Brexit as an existential threat.

 

[Jim D]

Why is it The EU's and Irish Government's fault? We're the ones leaving because we decided to. Everyone knew exactly what they were voting for, extracting ourselves from the last 40+ years of co-operation and integration could all be done easily inside of 2 years no worries, if not no deal is better than a bad deal, so what's the problem?

There is no problem and I'm surprised that you think there is. It's quite obvious that the EU are against us agreeing any sort of deal through their (non) negotiating approach so we just need to get on with it. The only regret is that our misguided belief that we could somehow agree a deal with a brick wall would succeed. We lost a good few months there.

 

[GT49er]

I guess the whole Ireland thing should have been discussed in the lead up the referendum eh?

Shamefully ignored.

I imagine it was widely talked about by the population of Northern Ireland; that's probably a major factor in that small part of the UK voting remain. The referendum though, wasn't a wish list of which bits of in or out were wanted, it was a straight in or out question, and it was a referendum for the whole of the UK - who voted to leave.

 

[GT49er]

Why is it The EU's and Irish Government's fault? We're the ones leaving because we decided to. Everyone knew exactly what they were voting for, extracting ourselves from the last 40+ years of co-operation and integration could all be done easily inside of 2 years no worries, if not no deal is better than a bad deal, so what's the problem?

Not according to the remoaners, we didn't!