[Politics] Brexit

[Hamilton]

We really have no idea how the EU genuinely feel because we are all getting mixed messages. In the end I'm 100% positive everything will come together, like most things in life.

Are you David Davis in disguise?


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[Pavilionaire]

Your suspicions are entirely unfounded. Brexit is going to happen. Our relationship with the EU has changed and we are not at their table, and most likely never will be whilst I am alive.

Regardless of which way anyone voted in the Referendum I don't agree that Brexit is automatically going to happen.

For it to do so Britain is going to have to find £50 billion from somewhere whilst taking a massive economic short-term hit, solve the Irish border problem without buggering up the Good Friday Agreement, come up with a solution for existing EU residents and UK nationals living abroad without promoting a mass exodus of important workers from our shores.

And even if the Tories could deliver it, they will be remembered as the party that f*cked the economy and, possibly, split the UK. This could kill them as a political force for 20 years or more. The young don't want Brexit and as each day passes the they are growing in numbers as the Brexit voters die off. Why would the young trust the Tories after this?

 

[portslade seagull]

Regardless of which way anyone voted in the Referendum I don't agree that Brexit is automatically going to happen.

For it to do so Britain is going to have to find £50 billion from somewhere whilst taking a massive economic short-term hit, solve the Irish border problem without buggering up the Good Friday Agreement, come up with a solution for existing EU residents and UK nationals living abroad without promoting a mass exodus of important workers from our shores.

And even if the Tories could deliver it, they will be remembered as the party that f*cked the economy and, possibly, split the UK. This could kill them as a political force for 20 years or more. The young don't want Brexit and as each day passes the they are growing in numbers as the Brexit voters die off. Why would the young trust the Tories after

Most Brexit voters I know are in there 40s so will take sometime for the remain vote to catch up by which time we will be booming outside the corrupt EU and all will be forgotten

 

[portslade seagull]

The huge difference is that the EU actually gives it out to needy communities. If you expect a Tory government to do the same then you really are mad.....or in denial.

And thats why they desperately need us. How many of these needy communities have been caused by EU policies. Well Merkels anyway

 

[portslade seagull]

You sum it up well, its my kids future that I fear for.

As for getting rid of May, the question is to replace with what? Right now she's trying to stop the Tories party from complete disintegration in the middle of a critical negiotation with the EU

We have a united 27 on one side and a dis-united 1 on the other. What a complete mess we're become...

Are you sure the 27 are United. I don't think so.

 

[Hastings gull]

Oh the irony! A brainwashed EU lover talking about pigs and troughs. The EU is the biggest, most rotten and corrupt trough of them all. Why are so many greedy pigs squealing? Because they won't get to stick their ugly snouts in it. No more jobs for the British old boys in Brussels paid for by the poor taxpayer.

Fascinating to see this, as I have just had a firm in our garden cutting back the hedges. The chap doing it had his little helper, who lives in France for most months of the year. He was telling me of the EU finance promised and allegedly received to renew the village clock tower, where he lives. This was several years ago, and no one knows where the money has gone . . . . He said, and I should stress that it is anecdotal, that this has happened all over France. But when billions are sloshing around, and the government is so distant, this is what happens.

 

[Pavilionaire]

We really have no idea how the EU genuinely feel because we are all getting mixed messages. In the end I'm 100% positive everything will come together, like most things in life.

Indeed, in the UK we ARE used to most things coming together in life because traditionally we have been economically and politically stable, and have enjoyed the security that comes with being a leading member of NATO and the EU.

I don't see things coming together for the refugees from Syria, Myanmar of those fleeing Africa in dinghies.

The UK has worked hard to earn its place in the world and get the prestige, peace and prosperity that come with it, but there are too many folk taking all of it for granted, making the dangerous assumption that things will carry on before simply because we are British.

The truth is we've been lucky - EU migrants have filled a skills gap over the last 20 years, EU membership helped our economy grow out of the mire of the 70s, US loans got our economy back on track after WW2 and indeed it was US entry into that war that helped preserve our freedom.

But what if our luck runs out? What if France and Germany are content with No Deal as they offset a decline in their UK market with an upturn as they bag relocating UK industry and start to enjoy the fruits of their new free trade deals with Canada, Japan and South Korea?

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Another error strewn post from you. No hyperbole in my posts, just observations of what is happening.

Will it turn out OK? Not on current evidence, given that 27 EU members are refusing to allow negotiations to more forward due to basic requirements and reassurances that they are seeking.

As for the Tory party membership being united behind one Brexit vision, you obviously must walk around with your eyes shut and your ears covered. I'd imagine you do, you voted leave after all, and so chose to ignore the compelling evidence that we should remain.

There is only so long you can go on ignoring both the economic facts and the ongoing forecasts for significant slowdown in growth. This is not some temporary resetting, it's a long-term reality.

Your suspicions are entirely unfounded. Brexit is going to happen. Our relationship with the EU has changed and we are not at their table, and most likely never will be whilst I am alive. However, we need to build a relationship with our closest - and one of the largest - economic blocs because it is in our interests to do so. That's economics 101.

As we want a trade deal, perhaps the attitude should be a little less arrogant. This deal is less important to the EU than it is to us. Yes they would like it I'm sure, but they are far better positioned to weather any storm, so the boot is very much on their foot.

So, let's march on towards Brexit, but with the honesty that we will be a poorer country - financially - because of it.

The naivety of ideological Brexiters like you astounds me.

Bollox you presented opinion as fact and certainty. Hyperbole- exaggerated statements, claims.

See previous answer. Trying to make any meaningful assessment as to the outcome at this stage is pointless.

Are you confusing MP's with members? https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/913698551640805376 The Tory membership is largely Eurosceptic Ruth Davidson, the only Remainer who could realistically have a chance has repeatedly ruled herself out.

I'm not ignoring anything just challenging the doom mongering hyperbole. You have as much idea as I do about the long term 'reality' eg Naff all. The Eurozone could go tits up next (any) year, a mutually beneficial Brexit deal, other trade deals .. all factors that could impact our future. Who knows.

Economics 101 and government policy .. was that your definition of a 'Soft' brexit?

We both need each other and neither side can really afford for the negotiations to fail. Which is why the view I held pre referedum of a deal being done probably at the last moment is still likely imo (note not fact or a certainty).

Unfortunately the condescending ill informed nonsense emanating from many Remainers on this thread surprises no one.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Fascinating to see this, as I have just had a firm in our garden cutting back the hedges. The chap doing it had his little helper, who lives in France for most months of the year. He was telling me of the EU finance promised and allegedly received to renew the village clock tower, where he lives. This was several years ago, and no one knows where the money has gone . . . . He said, and I should stress that it is anecdotal, that this has happened all over France. But when billions are sloshing around, and the government is so distant, this is what happens.

How do you know that the EU didn't pay the money as promised but it has been trousered by corrupt French officials? One of the main reasons the Romanians rose up against their leaders this year was because the EU money they received has disappeared - the roads and infrastructure that the EU paid to upgrade are still shocking while those in neighbouring countries like Hungary are significantly better.

 

[Pavilionaire]

We both need each other and neither side can really afford for the negotiations to fail. Which is why the view I held pre referedum of a deal being done probably at the last moment is still likely imo (note not fact or a certainty)./

What makes you so sure that the EU27 won't simply let No Deal happen and watch business relocate into their countries from Britain? The free trade deals they've signed with Japan, South Korea and Canada should help the EU27 economies too. I could see Brexit being trade neutral for them, and I don't see why they'd have to tear up their rule book just to accommodate us.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Indeed, in the UK we ARE used to most things coming together in life because traditionally we have been economically and politically stable, and have enjoyed the security that comes with being a leading member of NATO and the EU.

I don't see things coming together for the refugees from Syria, Myanmar of those fleeing Africa in dinghies.

The UK has worked hard to earn its place in the world and get the prestige, peace and prosperity that come with it, but there are too many folk taking all of it for granted, making the dangerous assumption that things will carry on before simply because we are British.

The truth is we've been lucky - EU migrants have filled a skills gap over the last 20 years, EU membership helped our economy grow out of the mire of the 70s, US loans got our economy back on track after WW2 and indeed it was US entry into that war that helped preserve our freedom.

But what if our luck runs out? What if France and Germany are content with No Deal as they offset a decline in their UK market with an upturn as they bag relocating UK industry and start to enjoy the fruits of their new free trade deals with Canada, Japan and South Korea?

I personally think the French and Germans have too much to lose to play silly buggers.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

http://www.independent.co.uk/travel...refund-not-guaranteed-eu-law-uk-a8006471.html

Good news from Brexit at last for the air industry

 

[WATFORD zero]

Which is why the view I held pre referedum of a deal being done probably at the last moment is still likely imo (note not fact or a certainty).

Unfortunately the condescending ill informed nonsense emanating from many Remainers on this thread surprises no one.

Well as long as it only takes a moment to implement it will all be fine.

And the EU hasn't agreed to TMs request for a further 2 years membership ('or implementation ' as you like to call it)

 

[Pavilionaire]

I personally think the French and Germans have too much to lose to play silly buggers.

The only one playing silly buggers is the UK by quitting the Single Market that buys almost half our total exports.

By contrast the UK is max 20% of their export market, they already have new free trade deals about to come on tap and they'll do very well from enticing businesses based in the UK to relocate to the EU mainland.

 

[Hastings gull]

How do you know that the EU didn't pay the money as promised but it has been trousered by corrupt French officials? One of the main reasons the Romanians rose up against their leaders this year was because the EU money they received has disappeared - the roads and infrastructure that the EU paid to upgrade are still shocking while those in neighbouring countries like Hungary are significantly better.

I don't. But I would be expecting some sort of supervision, and an official representing a distant organisation, where the accounts have never been audited to the auditor's satisfaction, might just take the view that -oh, well, it is taxpayer's money, so who cares.

 

[Hamilton]

Bollox you presented opinion as fact and certainty. Hyperbole- exaggerated statements, claims.

See previous answer. Trying to make any meaningful assessment as to the outcome at this stage is pointless.

Are you confusing MP's with members? https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/913698551640805376 The Tory membership is largely Eurosceptic Ruth Davidson, the only Remainer who could realistically have a chance has repeatedly ruled herself out.

I'm not ignoring anything just challenging the doom mongering hyperbole. You have as much idea as I do about the long term 'reality' eg Naff all. The Eurozone could go tits up next (any) year, a mutually beneficial Brexit deal, other trade deals .. all factors that could impact our future. Who knows.

Economics 101 and government policy .. was that your definition of a 'Soft' brexit?

We both need each other and neither side can really afford for the negotiations to fail. Which is why the view I held pre referedum of a deal being done probably at the last moment is still likely imo (note not fact or a certainty).

Unfortunately the condescending ill informed nonsense emanating from many Remainers on this thread surprises no one.

The fact that you can barely contain your emotions demonstrates the fragility of your position. It will unravel and you will have to accept responsibility for that.

As we’re getting emotive now let me quote back what someone in politics once said, “calm down dear.” What a shame that person was ever in politics, and what a shame so many people were led astray and promised greater things if we left the EU.


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[Hastings gull]

The fact that you can barely contain your emotions demonstrates the fragility of your position. It will unravel and you will have to accept responsibility for that.

As we’re getting emotive now let me quote back what someone in politics once said, “calm down dear.” What a shame that person was ever in politics, and what a shame so many people were led astray and promised greater things if we left the EU.
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Christ -you have been going for hours now and yet complain about ideologues. And with a shade of arrogance thrown in -all those silly thick misled folk who simply could not work out what you have done -if only they had you to put them right in the first place.

 

[pastafarian]

The UK has worked hard to earn its place in the world and get the prestige, peace and prosperity that come with it, but there are too many folk taking all of it for granted, making the dangerous assumption that things will carry on before simply because we are British.

The world of tomorrow is a world of empires

 

[Hamilton]

Christ -you have been going for hours now and yet complain about ideologues. And with a shade of arrogance thrown in -all those silly thick misled folk who simply could not work out what you have done -if only they had you to put them right in the first place.

Did I say they were thick? No, you just have. That’s an example of the type of crooked thinking and argument that got us into this mess. Make a claim that I have said something which I have not. A great many people were misled.


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[Two Professors]

http://www.independent.co.uk/travel...refund-not-guaranteed-eu-law-uk-a8006471.html

Good news from Brexit at last for the air industry

Ah,so all the Monarch flight-only customers are getting their money refunded courtesy of the EU,are they?