[Politics] Brexit

[Trufflehound]

The honest truth is no one knows what will happen. No one has left before but there seems to be an orderly queue forming!

I have yet to be persuaded to change my mind and after to speaking to a colleague of mine who was on business in Holland and meeting so many other Europeans on his visit, you would be surprised at how many are watching to see what we do, if we vote out my guess is a mass exodus would follow and we would definitely be stronger in the end .

Many people take the risk and leave employment to work for themselves without knowing what the future brings.
They make it work for themselves.
This is the attitude needed.
Problem is the remain camp are feeding on the fear of those who do not have this attitude.

Why would I be surprised that other Europeans are watching? I credit them with the intelligence to see the bigger picture and to realise that it affects everyone, in the broadest "united we stand..." sense.

For the record by the way, in a poll last week 64% of Dutch people said they would vote 'in' if there was a referendum on a "Nexit", so I'm not convinced your friend got the true picture on his business trip. It's only a small but vociferous minority of "little Hollanders", their fears about immigration stoked up by odious racial hatemongers Geert Wilders and his PVV, who are firmly in the 'out' camp.

 

[Trufflehound]

Totally agree.If the UK leave that could spell the end of the EU with other countries demanding their own referendums which I'm certain will happen.That's why everyone is siding up with Cameron in a desperate effort to avoid the UK leaving.

In the same poll I quoted above, 55% of Dutch people said they didn't want a referendum.

But in the much broader sense, the one person who stands to gain most from the break up of Europe is Mr Putin. And we all want that don't we?

 

[Bladders]

Why would I be surprised that other Europeans are watching? I credit them with the intelligence to see the bigger picture and to realise that it affects everyone, in the broadest "united we stand..." sense.

For the record by the way, in a poll last week 64% of Dutch people said they would vote 'in' if there was a referendum on a "Nexit", so I'm not convinced your friend got the true picture on his business trip. It's only a small but vociferous minority of "little Hollanders", their fears about immigration stoked up by odious racial hatemongers Geert Wilders and his PVV, who are firmly in the 'out' camp.

lol! ok, thats like me saying the pollsters in Holland must have asked the wrong people.

He was dealing with traders from all over Europe and the world where he was, so of course he hasn't spoken to a huge amount of Dutchmen, but just reporting what he told me during his dealings there.

Take it, dont take it. It's no bother.

 

[Maldini]

For the record by the way, in a poll last week 64% of Dutch people said they would vote 'in' if there was a referendum on a "Nexit",

Let's assume that poll was accurate so that would mean 36% of Dutch people either don't want to be in the EU or are not sure.
If Italy had a vote it would probably be alot higher taking into account their economic situation plus perhaps Spain and other countries.You then have the UK where again a large amount of people want out.So to sum up you have millions and millions of people in an organisation they do not wish to be in.How can that possibly be right.

 

[Steve in Japan]

Seems to me the campaign is now starting to wear people down. In essence the Brexit campaign is asking people to take a leap of faith because the EU is a borderline corrupt, unaccountable and morally bankrupt organisation to which we should not belong. You will note that no-one the Bremain side are trying to argue that the EU is a good organisation because they would be wasting their breath and they know that. Instead they are hitting people mercilessly with the economic argument.

People are going to vote for that leap of faith, or not, based on how strongly they feel about the EU and probably more likely how economically secure they are. And relatively few people feel economically secure. Unless something changes, unless the Brexit campaign find another gear, I fear that the course is almost run.

And so we will collectively vote to remain in an organisation which we know to be undemocratic, morally reprehensible and of course incapable of reform. Because we have an economic gun being pointed at our head (and the EU has plenty of form for doing this when member country's act up).

Hey ho - still a month or so to go.

 

[Maldini]

In the same poll I quoted above, 55% of Dutch people said they didn't want a referendum.

But in the much broader sense, the one person who stands to gain most from the break up of Europe is Mr Putin. And we all want that don't we?

If you asked 1000 Remain voters their reasons for wishing to remain I doubt one would say because of Putin.

 

[Trufflehound]

So to sum up you have millions and millions of people in an organisation they do not wish to be in.How can that possibly be right.

Because we like to believe (rightly or wrongly) that we live in a democracy, and while millions want out, millions more than that want in.

 

[Bladders]

Seems to me the campaign is now starting to wear people down. In essence the Brexit campaign is asking people to take a leap of faith because the EU is a borderline corrupt, unaccountable and morally bankrupt organisation to which we should not belong. You will note that no-one the Bremain side are trying to argue that the EU is a good organisation because they would be wasting their breath and they know that. Instead they are hitting people mercilessly with the economic argument.

People are going to vote for that leap of faith, or not, based on how strongly they feel about the EU and probably more likely how economically secure they are. And relatively few people feel economically secure. Unless something changes, unless the Brexit campaign find another gear, I fear that the course is almost run.

And so we will collectively vote to remain in an organisation which we know to be undemocratic, morally reprehensible and of course incapable of reform. Because we have an economic gun being pointed at our head (and the EU has plenty of form for doing this when member country's act up).

Hey ho - still a month or so to go.

Cant wait

I think a lot are probably ignoring most of it at the moment, bored of all the scare stories and confusion. I think a lot will take notice the week leading up to the vote and thats where the undecided will be either convinced or not.

 

[Trufflehound]

If you asked 1000 Remain voters their reasons for wishing to remain I doubt one would say because of Putin.

Maybe they're not looking at the bigger picture: that a Brexit weakens the EU (whether or not others follow the UK's lead), and a weakened EU strengthens Putin's role in Europe.

 

[Bladders]

Because we like to believe (rightly or wrongly) that we live in a democracy, and while millions want out, millions more than that want in.

Good old democracy.

I can't even remember voting to let even more of those millions in in the first place.

 

[Maldini]

This nonsense about taking a leap into the unknown.If all those entrepreneurs thinking of leaving their safe jobs to start their own business had the same fearful attitude they would never leave.It's not a leap into the dark.We have a pretty good idea of what might happen but it's impossible to be spot on.We are willing to take our chances.On the other hand what we already have isn't too bright. I'm not aware of a booming economy.

 

[Maldini]

Maybe they're not looking at the bigger picture: that a Brexit weakens the EU (whether or not others follow the UK's lead), and a weakened EU strengthens Putin's role in Europe.

Putin can do as he pleases and showed that with the Ukraine.What planet are you on.

 

[Maldini]

Because we like to believe (rightly or wrongly) that we live in a democracy, and while millions want out, millions more than that want in.

So we just say stuff you to the millions who want out.We make a limp attempt to reform the EU which as we know is a waste of time.

I'll live with this Remain victory because it's obvious they will win in the knowledge that's it is only delaying the inevitable I truly believe that.10 more years of migration and Euro mess and it's game over.

 

[Trufflehound]

What planet are you on.

A curious comment. Not sure what it brings to the argument.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

.If all those entrepreneurs thinking of leaving their safe jobs to start their own business had the same fearful attitude they would never leave.

If they did have the same attitude we'd be well and truly up shit creek. Yours is not the best anology.


"90% of start ups fail"
http://www.forbes.com/sites/neilpat...t-you-need-to-know-about-the-10/#9c5548755e19

"8 out of 10 businesses fail"
http://www.forbes.com/sites/ericwag...ons-8-out-of-10-businesses-fail/#fa755c45e3c6

 

[jgmcdee]

"90% Of Startups of start ups fail"
http://www.forbes.com/sites/neilpat...t-you-need-to-know-about-the-10/#9c5548755e19

And startups of startups of startups?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Oops. Bad cut and paste skills

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

So we just say stuff you to the millions who want out.

What do you propose?

 

[Trufflehound]

So we just say stuff you to the millions who want out.

OK. So what you're saying in effect is that if the vote goes the way you want it to, then it's democratic, but if it goes the other way then it's a fix and undemocratic. Is that right?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

OK. So what you're saying in effect is that if the vote goes the way you want it to, then it's democratic, but if it goes the other way then it's a fix and undemocratic. Is that right?

You've nailed it