[Politics] Brexit

[JC Footy Genius]

Corbyn hysteria is wearing a bit thin too. I'm sure it works amongst Tories, but it's not other like-minded people like yourself who need convincing. Perhaps you're right though, but then better the devil you know surely? Why vote for a giant leap in the dark advocated by the likes of John Redwood and Neil Hamilton? It's a very contradictory position to take to say Labour, which is hardly as socialist as prior 'experiments', will be bad for the future when you've just voted for the great unknown in Brexit. Then Brexit is very contradictory and hypocritical by all sides, as well as unprecedented. The biggest fans of Thatcherism may just have killed it off with Brexit for example. Who knows? Anythings possible politically now.

Whatever happens though, the last 44 years were ripped up June of last year and we're now having a re-boot and lot of people have become galvanised and interested in politics again and the polls are neck-and-neck now. Perhaps you should get out and pound the streets of the poorer parts of the country when the next election comes yourself to convince floating voters to vote Tory? Wax jacket and welly boots or full-on Rees-Mogg attire might not be best though.

View attachment 89318

One man's hysteria is another's legitimate scrutiny and accountability that should apply to all politicians. My position is voting for Brexit returning the UK to a status it previously held and enjoyed by the vast majority of countries around the world (so not that much of a leap). Then voting for a government that has promised to enact the referendum decision setting out guiding principles that I broadly agree with. Yours/others appears to be voting Remain for stability/economic reasons then voting for a (principled?) Leader who was as Eurosceptic as Redwood and Jacob Rees Mogg who has promised to enact numerous policies that are (according to all previous evidence) likely to create instability and economic difficulties. The 'this is the type of Socialism that really really will work this time' argument has been heard many times before. Apparently a new generation may have to experience the pain/failure rather than learn lessons from the past.

Agree politics is in flux and logical consistent arguments are in short supply at the moment. Interesting times ..

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Can I just make it clear that This Remainer for one is not mainly motivated by economic issues (although they play a part) and I doubt I'm alone. I agree with few of Corbyn's policies but I would vote for his party if I lived in, say, Hove for reasons of sound principle.

No surprise there then ..

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Labour policy to respect the referendum and leave the EU, despite voting against the means to purse that policy. very principled.

I wasn't talking about the Labour Party's principles. I regard the leadership of the Labour Party as a hapless shambles with an approach that makes a mockery of its 'many not the few' mantra. I imagine we are together on that. But as I said, if I lived in Hove I would vote for them because of my opinion - which I don't force upon you but which you may allow me to have - that a Labour government might possibly cause less long term damage to my country than a Tory one of the present kind.

 

[ManOfSussex]

One man's hysteria is another's legitimate scrutiny and accountability that should apply to all politicians. My position is voting for Brexit returning the UK to a status it previously held and enjoyed by the vast majority of countries around the world (so not that much of a leap). Then voting for a government that has promised to enact the referendum decision setting out guiding principles that I broadly agree with. Yours/others appears to be voting Remain for stability/economic reasons then voting for a (principled?) Leader who was as Eurosceptic as Redwood and Jacob Rees Mogg who has promised to enact numerous policies that are (according to all previous evidence) likely to create instability and economic difficulties. The 'this is the type of Socialism that really really will work this time' argument has been heard many times before. Apparently a new generation may have to experience the pain/failure rather than learn lessons from the past.

Agree politics is in flux and logical consistent arguments are in short supply at the moment. Interesting times ..

I know full well Corbyn's Euro scepticism. To compare him to Rees-Mogg is like comparing me to Theresa May because we both born in Sussex though - chalk and cheese. Brexit is done now though, there is no going back. I did not solely vote remain for economic reasons - there was far more to it than that. The Labour party is the only alternative to the Brexit at any cost ideology of Rees-Mogg and Redwood though that the Tories have at present.

You voted to undo the last 44 years of social, economic and political integration and go back to how wonderful things were in the early 1970's before it all started, when we still had Hong Kong and Rhodesia - I understand, but don't agree with that. Undoing that will be difficult and painful but it will be done.

You saying Labour will cause instability and economic difficulties is like me saying Brexit will in the future - and it's 2017, not Harold Wilson and Callaghan now - it's a different world and ball game now. If Brexit causes pain for people, I'm sure you'd accept it as it's your ideological standpoint and I get the impression it wouldn't hurt you as much as someone toward the bottom of the ladder if it does go wrong. You might as well say you can't vote Tory because they'll cause a international ***t storm for the country like Suez again with their foreign policies............oh hang on.

What will be, will be though. Interesting times as you say.

 

[Berty23]

As Baldseagull has pointed out the powers are temporary and fall after 2 years which is before the next scheduled GE.

The fear of a Corbyn government is an interesting point. What I find confusing is Remain voters who are apparently mainly motivated by economic concerns and instabilty (companies shifting work/business elsewhere) who are voting for Corbyn. It's pretty clear Labour are all over the place on Brexit policy, shifting positions to maximise parliamentary problems for the Tories rather than holding to a principled policy line. It's also obvious that a sudden lurch to the left with numerous interventionist policies plus the promised biggest tax hike since WW2 (much of it on business) ... plus increased powers for unions at the very moment we are leaving the EU is unlikely to help re stability and business confidence. Cognitive dissonance?

It is two years once this becomes law isn't it? If so plenty of time for an early election of the Tory party eats itself. People who voted remain do not have a viable option with one party being led by a remainer but they are taking us out and oppo led by leaver. Who should people vote for.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

It is two years once this becomes law isn't it? If so plenty of time for an early election of the Tory party eats itself. People who voted remain do not have a viable option with one party being led by a remainer but they are taking us out and oppo led by leaver. Who should people vote for.

Welcome to the world staunch leavers like me inhabited for many elections. The choices were Tory - always supported staying and Labour - also always supported staying ..... so who should I have voted for since 1988 ?

 

[Lincoln Imp]

It is two years once this becomes law isn't it? If so plenty of time for an early election of the Tory party eats itself. People who voted remain do not have a viable option with one party being led by a remainer but they are taking us out and oppo led by leaver. Who should people vote for.

Well as long as you don't mind your vote crashing on to the rocks of Britain's ludicrous voting system I suppose you could vote for one of the only two largish parties to have a consistent and open policy on Europe, and I'm not thinking of UKIP. Otherwise, you might take the view that the top-two party most likely to drift in the direction of a soft Brexit (or "not really leaving the EU") is the Labour Party, and place your vote accordingly. Obviously if you did that you would be lumbered with Diane Abbott but at least you'd avoid Iain Duncan Smith.

 

[Buzzer]

Getting our country back isn't going well..

It's all going horribly wrong.

 

[Two Professors]

Dreadful,isn't it.Aaaaaaaghhhhhh,World Trade rules:



But what does James Dyson know,compared to some non-entity!

 

[studio150]

It's all going horribly wrong.

it certainly is

hthttps://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/aug/06/employment-statistics-wages-uk-jobs-markettp://

 

[ManOfSussex]

Dreadful,isn't it.Aaaaaaaghhhhhh,World Trade rules:

View attachment 89330

But what does James Dyson know,compared to some non-entity!

But the non-entity you omitted from that BBC article who was worrying about Brexit was Sir Charles/Charlie/Charles Mayfield - he might only be chairman of the John Lewis Partnership and Chairman of the UK Commission for Employment and Skills now, but he's a Business school MBA graduate, and a former Lieutenant in The Scots Guards - I thought he'd be right up your street?

 

[Baldseagull]

Dreadful,isn't it.Aaaaaaaghhhhhh,World Trade rules:

View attachment 89330

But what does James Dyson know,compared to some non-entity!

What does James Dyson know outside of his business?
Malaysian made products are not going to be affected much I would think.

 

[Buzzer]

it certainly is

hthttps://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/aug/06/employment-statistics-wages-uk-jobs-markettp://

Haha! Fail.

 

[Two Professors]

But the non-entity you omitted from that BBC article who was worrying about Brexit was Sir Charles/Charlie/Charles Mayfield - he might only be chairman of the John Lewis Partnership and Chairman of the UK Commission for Employment and Skills now, but he's a Business school MBA graduate, and a former Lieutenant in The Scots Guards - I thought he'd be right up your street?

The non-entity I was referring to was a poster on here,as I'm sure you are aware!I'm sure Charlie was a captain,actually,on his retirement and a very clever man,but has little or no experience of trading with the EU under WTO.

 

[ManOfSussex]

The non-entity I was referring to was a poster on here,as I'm sure you are aware!I'm sure Charlie was a captain,actually,on his retirement and a very clever man,but has little or no experience of trading with the EU under WTO.

Okay, thank-you for clarifying, it's very difficult to keep up as to who you're insulting.

 

[5ways]

I can think of two pro-Leave businessmen - the Dyson guy and the Weatherspoons guy. Meanwhile 90% of economists were for remain. Mervyn King is rather quietly freaking out that we don't actually have a plan B.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I can think of two pro-Leave businessmen - the Dyson guy and the Weatherspoons guy. Meanwhile 90% of economists were for remain. Mervyn King is rather quietly freaking out that we don't actually have a plan B.

Head of JCB supports leave.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

We're all* leavers now. #togetherish









*70% ish

 

[Berty23]

I can think of two pro-Leave businessmen - the Dyson guy and the Weatherspoons guy. Meanwhile 90% of economists were for remain. Mervyn King is rather quietly freaking out that we don't actually have a plan B.

Weatherspoons guy changed his mind when he realised he won't be able to recruit.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Weatherspoons guy changed his mind when he realised he won't be able to recruit.

More than replaced by this lot - Peter Goldstein, a founder of Superdrug, Steve Dowdle, the former vice president Europe of technology firm Sony, David Sismey, a MD of Goldman Sachs and Sir Patrick Sheehy, the former chairman of British American Tobacco.