[Politics] Brexit

[DavidinSouthampton]

I'm not happy with the idiots negotiating for us against these cretins in Brussels and as we move closer I find it disturbing how controlling and how much power the EU have over countries.

Goodbye identities sovereignties for the rest of Europe as they become one.
So glad we're leaving

Good grief, I think for the first time ever I agree with something you hve written: "... The idiots negotiating for us...." I saw something the other day where the former head of the Leave campaign had described David Davis as lazy (he's been working a three day week for months), stupid (He's as thick as mince) and vain.

The cretins in Brussels, though, seem prepared and professional. It's men against boys.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Aston Martin announces £500m UK-Japan deal

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-41093121

Global Britain .. open for Business

Don't they have Mercedes engines and tech though? Brilliant news for Germany as well.

 

[Baldseagull]

Aston Martin announces £500m UK-Japan deal

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-41093121

Global Britain .. open for Business

£400 million of this trade and investment plan is the projected export to Japan. Another £70 million of the £500 million, is buying Japanese manufactured parts, which I guess leaves £30 million spent in Japan, on setting up new dealerships and offices.
This announcement says Aston Martin will definitely be spending £100 million in Japan, in the hope of increasing sales to £400 million over the next 5 years. I don't know what their sales for the last 5 years to Japan were like, so I can't tell how ambitious this is.

 

[vegster]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41093516

And this is the person " leading " brexit negotiations ? Delusional or what ?

 

[melias shoes]

It's wonderful to see Aston Martin doing well after an up and down sort of history over the last 100 years. Before old ones became so valuable I had an uncle with three of them: a split screen DB1, a prewar Mark 2 that he wrote off near Exeter, losing half an ear in the process, and, the absolute zenith, a 1935 Ulster. I believe there were only 29 of these made. It had a Brooklands can exhaust, aero screens, bonnet louvres, leather straps, the lot. Uncle went a bit balmy in his later days and finished up driving a first generation Fiat Panda. One of my first motoring memories was sitting the the dickie seat of the Mark 2 as it careered along those dead straight Lincolnshire backroads. It was believed that the Ulster was one of the effects when he died, many years ago. Today it would have the sort of price tag that contains two commas.

I bet you wished you still had it.

 

[melias shoes]

No silly that's Juncker, Merkel and Barnier

 

[melias shoes]

Ah the golden boy, saviour of France and the EU ...

... sacré bleu worse performance than Donald Trump!

That's because they've realised he's another self serving Merkel poodle. That uses the EU for his own gain.

 

[melias shoes]

Good grief, I think for the first time ever I agree with something you hve written: "... The idiots negotiating for us...." I saw something the other day where the former head of the Leave campaign had described David Davis as lazy (he's been working a three day week for months), stupid (He's as thick as mince) and vain.

The cretins in Brussels, though, seem prepared and professional. It's men against boys.

Agree with you about Davis.

 

[Hampster Gull]

The pound getting €0.86 euros at airport currency exchange shops

 

[pastafarian]

That horse bolted with the A8/12 countries. We chose not to implement controls when other countries did to the new entrants. We could have done the same to turkey if they were going to join (they won't that was another lie).

The UK has the right to restrict FoM through:
Suspension of the FoM for up to 7 years from when a new member country joins by:
Preventing/prohibiting movement;
UK can insist upon work permits for each migrant; and
Benefit/Welfare “tourism” is illegal

We chose not to use any of these controls. We could have done but didn't. But you knew that right?

Further explanation.

UK chose not to control the 2004 inflow of migrants

Certainly it is true that one of the sharpest rises in net migration came in 2004, when the Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Slovakia and Slovenia joined. However it is also fact that the UK was one of only 3 of the original EU members to choose not to apply transitional restrictions on these eight countries and as such the UK invited this surge. They could have avoided it if they wished. Restrictions can apply for up to 7 years after a new member joins the EU and there are provisions to restrict movement if there should be any localised “surges”.

Everyone knows about the transitional periods, it would be a short memory not to remember we used this safeguard against Romania and Bulgaria until the option ran out(and currently do against Croatia), I doubt people have forgotten the news cameras at airports reporting on the one bloke flying in and telling us worries about mass movement from these two countries as restrictions were lifted was now unfounded. It would be a short memory to forget people laughing at Farage for suggesting thousands and thousands of Bulgarians and Romanians would use the end of restrictions opportunity to come here, these people look rather idiotic now as their low number estimates have been smashed.

But well done for moving the goalposts yet again.
You have repeatedly said we “can” control EU migration (present tense) Now after failing to find your alleged mechanism that we can use today or even tomorrow to control the numbers entering the country you resort to historical transition periods 13 years ago and think if we had used them everything would have been ok. You miss the whole point that transitional periods expire then the flood gates open which leaves us with no mechanism to control the numbers at the border. Mass uncontrolled movement has occurred even after we have enforced these periods and occurred after the years when transitional periods would have expired if we had used them.

Thank god we have voted to take back control of our EU borders though.
Historical expired provisions do not equate to adequate border controls today.


Ps. Its normal when you copy and paste whole sections of a piece as you just did,to provide a link and not pass it off as your own .
Someone else went to the effort of writing your post , you should at least give them the “clicks” and recognition.

https://brexit853.wordpress.com/201...uk-governments-failure-to-implement-properly/

 

[pastafarian]

You seem to be operating under a misunderstanding that we are all on either side of a national debate whereby there are people with different points of view that should be considered and respected. But you're wrong, because Leaver's opinions are misinformed and your views on the topic come from reading shit sources that you don't bother to examine because they immediately agree with your world view. A lot of leavers on this forum think we're debating on a quid pro quo type situation, where every source or lets say "evidence" a leaver puts up is somehow of equal value to the sources from the remain camp. The problem is that it's easy for anyone with a modicum of intelligence to check the sources on both sides and find out which ones stand up to scrutiny, and which ones don't. Let me teach you a lesson......

Let's go with remain first. Let's find a remain article to scrutinise. A quick google of the keywords "Guardian" and "immigration" allows you to find this article about the detrimental effects of reduced immigration on the labour pool.....

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/may/19/uk-needs-more-immigrants-to-avoid-brexit-catastrophe

The article claims that labour shortages and an ageing population means that the UK is going to need to INCREASE inwards migration by 200,000 a year. This will already have most of you leavers frothing at the mouth, some of whom will attempt to discredit the article within seconds of reading the headline before they've even read the article (red flag there for the guys who do this). Let's check their sources. Well they've put a link to their source so that's immediately handy. It's this report by a group called Global Future. So, my first reaction here is "who the hell are they?" Let's check em out...

http://ourglobalfuture.com/about-us/

Ok, so they're a "global think tank" but they clearly aren't impartial based on their homepage. Black mark for them there but hey-ho let's read the article and check their sources....Ok they've given us 17 references for their article. Some don't stand up too well, the first reference is to another article they wrote before this one. However, some of the others seem legit, let's list them:

ONS (Office of National Statistics)
OBR (Office of Budget Responsibility)
An academic paper by a professor of economics which itself has a detailed list of references - http://data.parliament.uk/writtenev...fairs-committee/immigration/written/45077.pdf
An academic paper regarding the effects of immigration in the US, again with it's own list of references - http://www.nber.org/papers/w15507
A survey from the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors
A report from the Construction Industry Training Board
This government report from the UK Commission for Employment and Skills - https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...allenges-in-the-health-and-social-care-sector
This report from The Migration Observatory at The University of Oxford - http://www.migrationobservatory.ox....-older-people-and-demand-for-migrant-workers/
This report from the Royal College of Nursing regarding the amount of EU nationals in the nursing sector - https://my.rcn.org.uk/__data/assets...pation_Lists_for_the_UK_and_for_Scotland..pdf
This government report from The House of Lords regarding long term sustainability of the NHS - https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201617/ldselect/ldnhssus/151/151.pdf
A report for the British Hospitality Association regarding labour migration in the hospitality sector - https://dip9shwvohtcn.cloudfront.ne...igration-in-the-hospitality-sector-report.pdf
There was also a link to a report by the National Farmers Union regarding shortages in the labour market but that link doesn't appear to be working anymore.

Ok I think I've made my point. Most of those references also have their own list of references that can be checked which basically opens up a rabbit hole of other scientific papers to read on the subject if you wanted to take it further.

Now, lets have a look at a leave article regarding the same topic. A similar google search for the Express and immigration lead me to this little gem........

http://www.express.co.uk/comment/ex...tion-awful-British-workers-migration-pensions

EU immigration has been an economic catastrophe costing us 30 BILLION pounds a year apparently. Well my alarm bells are already ringing, that seems a huge amount there must be some pretty solid evidence backing this one up...let's check it.

Ok cool, this article is citing a source. This time another think tank called Global Britain. For some reason they declined to provide a direct link to the evidence provided by this think tank but I'm sure that was just an oversight. Let's see if we can find it ourselves on the Global Britain site.......

http://globalbritain.co.uk/

Ok well this clearly isn't an impartial group. I'll hold up my hands, the Guardian article source clearly wasn't either but compared to these guys....woah. They better have a pretty solid list of references on their article about EU immigrants costing us 30 billion quid a year. Let's find it..........wait.......mmmmmmm.........well I've reached a dead end already. Can't find the specific article The Express is talking about. They have a number of articles all offering up evidence that leaving the EU is the bees knees though so let's pick one...How about this "report" about how we're better off with NO deal than a bad deal.....

http://globalbritain.co.uk/wp-conte...he-single-market-is-failing-britain-Final.pdf

This looks very high brow doesn't it? Like the Guardian source it's full of graphs and statistics and stuff. I hope their references stand up to scrutiny......Errrr wait a minute. There are no references. All there is a section "about the authors" who are these two guys who are two of the three members that make up this "think tank". It's basically a summary of these guys' "Linked In" page showing how they really are experts honestly because (as an example) one of them "worked for major investment banks as a Strategist (capital S?)".

But wait a minute.......What the hell is THIS?!?!?!?!......

View attachment 88456

They've had to add a DISCLAIMER to the bottom of their piece of cutting edge research that proves that NO deal is better than a bad deal. I particularly liked the part that says "Although the information compiled in our research is produced to the best of our ability, its accuracy is not guaranteed. Any persons using Global Britain research or communication material does so solely at their own risk and Global Britain and their publisher shall be under no liability whatsoever in respect thereof.

Why would they have to add such a disclaimer to their articles (in small print that I had to blow up to read)? I'll tell you why. Because IT'S COMPLETE AND TOTAL BOBBINS!

So the Express article claims that EU migrants cost us 30 billion a year, claims an article by this Global Britain as a source, doesn't link to said article. Said article can't be found on the Global Britain site but a quick delve into one of their other "reports" finds a report with no references and a disclaimer which is tantamount to meaning "yeah all this may not actually be true, don't quote us on it".

So there you have it. This is why you lot posting up pro-brexit articles from charlatans like The Express in some kind of quid pro quo attempt to counter the remain sources (most of which have government sponsored reports by experts backing them up) displays your complete lack of critical thinking skills with regards to articles that instantly agree with your point of view. It just takes a few clicks of a mouse and a bit of googling to check these things yet for some reason you DON'T DO IT!

Cognitive Dissonance is an uncomfortable feeling I understand but you really need to get through it. Stop reading this shit and start looking at articles that provide evidence and references for their claims. It's your lack of ability to do this that has us branding you thickos. It's why I have most of you on ignore, the ones that can't think critically are worse than the out and out confessed racists like PPF (who I don't have a problem with and admire his honesty). Most of you others are not only lying to us, you're lying to yourselves as well.

Wake up.

Lectures people on all sides to scrutinise the information placed in front of them while simultaneously admitting to blocking most leave posters on this brexit thread, no doubt to shield himself from their information, thus eliminating the dissonance that makes him feel uncomfortable whilst re-affirming his echo chamber.
Priceless, You cant make this stuff up.
0/10 Massive Fail.

 

[pastafarian]

[MENTION=12825]cunning fergus[/MENTION] has been banned from this thread for abuse, particularly a post mid-night tirade.

I missed that notification on here about the why, what for and when he was chucked off the thread?
What post number was it?

 

[melias shoes]

The pound getting €0.86 euros at airport currency exchange shops

Over a pound in the exchange rate. That is just the airport exchange rate bureau taking liberties.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

£400 million of this trade and investment plan is the projected export to japan. Another £70 million of the £500 million, is buying japanese manufactured parts, which i guess leaves £30 million spent in japan, on setting up new dealerships and offices.
This announcement says aston martin will definitely be spending £100 million in japan, in the hope of increasing sales to £400 million over the next 5 years. I don't know what their sales for the last 5 years to japan were like, so i can't tell how ambitious this is.

nothing like a bit of bad news eh
regards
DR

 

[portslade seagull]

The pound getting €0.86 euros at airport currency exchange shops

Why get them there when it's 1.04 at most places

 

[Baldseagull]

nothing like a bit of bad news eh
regards
DR

It is definitely a little bit of good news for Japan, could be a bit of good news for Britain, but I don't know how much more business £400 million of Astons is than the previous 5 years value of Astons sold in Japan.
The point is, it is not announcing £400 million of exports that wouldn't have happened, if they do happen, it is probably something like £200 million of extra sales over the next 5 years, or £40 million a year, of additional sales. These are projected figures, so could be more or less, and will come at a cost of £100 million investment in Japan.
Net trade could be around + £100 million over the 5 years or £20 million a year, if they hit their targets.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

It is definitely a little bit of good news for Japan, could be a bit of good news for Britain, but I don't know how much more business £400 million of Astons is than the previous 5 years value of Astons sold in Japan.
The point is, it is not announcing £400 million of exports that wouldn't have happened, if they do happen, it is probably something like £200 million of extra sales over the next 5 years, or £40 million a year, of additional sales. These are projected figures, so could be more or less, and will come at a cost of £100 million investment in Japan.
Net trade could be around + £100 million over the 5 years or £20 million a year, if they hit their targets.

what you need to realise is TRADE DOESN'T JUST HAPPEN OVER NIGHT leaving the EU gives us further opportunity to other trade deals but we don't know how long these will take BUT it won't be the end of the world for the UK on the world stage as the doom merchants would have it, this is the future we're going into IT CANT BE ALL DOOM AND GLOOM for eternity otherwise we might as well chuck the towel in now
regards
DR

 

[Baldseagull]

what you need to realise is TRADE DOESN'T JUST HAPPEN OVER NIGHT leaving the EU gives us further opportunity to other trade deals but we don't know how long these will take BUT it won't be the end of the world for the UK on the world stage as the doom merchants would have it, this is the future we're going into IT CANT BE ALL DOOM AND GLOOM for eternity otherwise we might as well chuck the towel in now
regards
DR

This Aston Martin announcement has happened whilst we are still in, so not dependent on any new trading arrangements.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

this aston martin announcement has happened whilst we are still in, so not dependent on any new trading arrangements.

but knowing we're on the way out of the EU

 

[The Clamp]

what you need to realise is TRADE DOESN'T JUST HAPPEN OVER NIGHT leaving the EU gives us further opportunity to other trade deals but we don't know how long these will take BUT it won't be the end of the world for the UK on the world stage as the doom merchants would have it, this is the future we're going into IT CANT BE ALL DOOM AND GLOOM for eternity otherwise we might as well chuck the towel in now
regards
DR

YOU did chuck the towel in, you MORON.

TBTC