[Politics] Brexit

[Two Professors]

I see Osborne reckons Brexit would cost 850,000 jobs.Well done George,didn't realise we could get rid of so many migrants that quickly!

 

[Hamilton]

Wow you expect me to go back 500+ posts despite YOU quoting the figure since that post ? Why did you re-quote it despite already posting you disagreed with it ?

Please point me to the post where I have quoted the £4,300 out of context. I can then go back and edit it.

 

[Hamilton]

If I vote Remain can I have my £4300 next month as I fancy an extra week in Monaco?

As I have just posted to Westdene, the £4,300 is a crooked fact. This is the figure that is averaged out across every household. It is not something that should be taken literally, and so it shouldn't be presented literally. That's an unwise move, as you are right to pick upon.

This does not mean that it is a figure to be scoffed at. It's standard for figures to be expressed in these terms. It is still a monumental figure and would cause significant damage to the economy, but it must be seen as an average figure.

Both Remain and Leave must talk in meaningful facts.

 

[Two Professors]

I don't want to scoff the £4300,I want to drink it.Champagne's expensive,must be the tarriffs!

 

[Bladders]

It would seem projected loss figures if we exit are based on projected rise figures.

So if the housing market was projected to grow by 10% next year but he chancellor says we'll lose 10% in our house value if we Brexit, what is actually being said is the housing market will just flatten at 0% increase for the next year.

So in real world terms your house value will neither increase nor decrease over the next year.

Not really that scary when you REALLY look at the maths.

Shame for excited first time buyers who thought they'd get a great deal from Brexit

 

[Two Professors]

As the Remain camp have now moved on to meaningless graphs to attempt an explanation for their idiocy,I don't want the Leavers to feel left out:

 

[Two Professors]

And

 

[Bladders]

Osborne - The U.K's Carpets will disintegrate if we leave the EU

You can clearly see that by staying in the EU we'll be loaded thus being able to afford to have our carpets cleaned periodically.

However if we leave we'll be so poor that we'll have no choice but to let them waste away, and possibly have to eat them as food prices ROCKET.

It literally falls of the graph! Thats how bad it is.

 

[Hamilton]

Wow you expect me to go back 500+ posts despite YOU quoting the figure since that post ? Why did you re-quote it despite already posting you disagreed with it ?

Have you found the post yet? I'd like to correct it if I did post £4,300 out of context.

 

[5ways]

I don't want to scoff the £4300,I want to drink it.Champagne's expensive,must be the tarriffs!

Simply vote remain, buy a few bottles and pop them in 2030 in celebration. Cheers.

 

[yxee]

Simply vote remain, buy a few bottles and pop them in 2030 in celebration. Cheers.

And to top it off, you'll have more households to share it with!

 

[portslade seagull]

As I have just posted to Westdene, the £4,300 is a crooked fact. This is the figure that is averaged out across every household. It is not something that should be taken literally, and so it shouldn't be presented literally. That's an unwise move, as you are right to pick upon.

This does not mean that it is a figure to be scoffed at. It's standard for figures to be expressed in these terms. It is still a monumental figure and would cause significant damage to the economy, but it must be seen as an average figure.

Both Remain and Leave must talk in meaningful facts.

Not what you said though backtracking me thinks

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I think it's important to avoid a condescending tone in this debate, so let's refrain from that.

As you'll have discovered, there are a great many studies that support the economic arguments for immigration. The question you raise is a good one, with the lack of investment in infrastructure should we try to pause immigration. I don't think that means we should leave the EU. Unfortunately, the two are impossible to disconnect. It's highly unlikely we'll be able to negotiate a pause on immigration even if we wished to. That leaves us with the option of leaving. As most studies show - and today's treasury report is just one in a long line of consistent reports - the impact on the economy would be such that we would find it hard to invest in basic infrastructure let alone infrastructure designed to deliver growth.

I'm happy to discriminate against non-EU nationals as these nationals are not part of an economic bloc of which we benefit from.

You are right to point to migration being responsible for the population rise. As the native population growth has been in decline/stagnation since the 80's and 90's that is not surprising. It's a fact. This won't change by us throwing up the borders and hoping it will all go away. As the OECD points out, the UK may think it is worse off than everyone else, but this is a global issue.

http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/uk-population/

It's been one of the best things about this thread watching you grow from someone who barely knew the basic facts to someone who knows a little bit more. A wonderful testament to the patience and selflessness of numerous Brexiteers willing to impart their immense knowledge and wisdom despite knowing it would be ultimately futile.

Disappointed but not surprised you would discriminate against an Indian Doctor and rather have a Romanian cleaner enter the UK. This slavish subservience to the EU project is becoming quite disturbing. Yesterday we had many remainers dismissing the misery and suffering of the Greek people as a self inflicted comeuppance now this.

 

[yxee]

Genuine question: what will happen to EU migrants that have already got jobs over here?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I don't want to scoff the £4300,I want to drink it.Champagne's expensive,must be the tarriffs!

Is it expensive? Can't say I've ever noticed.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Genuine question: what will happen to EU migrants that have already got jobs over here?

As far as I am aware Nothing, this was even UKIP policy at the last election. The only likely change to this would be if the EU was stupid enough to try and make life difficult for Brits currently working in Europe in which case reciprocal measures would be necessary.

Mind you Dave And George will probably suggest we would throw them all off Beachy head.

 

[Hamilton]

It's been one of the best things about this thread watching you grow from someone who barely knew the basic facts to someone who knows a little bit more. A wonderful testament to the patience and selflessness of numerous Brexiteers willing to impart their immense knowledge and wisdom despite knowing it would be ultimately futile.

Disappointed but not surprised you would discriminate against an Indian Doctor and rather have a Romanian cleaner enter the UK. This slavish subservience to the EU project is becoming quite disturbing. Yesterday we had many remainers dismissing the misery and suffering of the Greek people as a self inflicted comeuppance now this.

I'll take the wink as a sign of well-meant sarcasm.

As you'll see from my post history, my views haven't changed one iota. I merely ask questions and point of facts.

I empathize with the leave campaigns emotions because I can see where that feeling is coming from. I understand how you have reached you conclusions about the vote, but I remain to be convinced on balance - and that phrase is an important one - that leaving the EU is a good thing.

In case your sarcasm is not well-meant I am surprised you are prepared to use the phrase discriminate as opposed to differentiate when referring to ways in which we should treat different immigrants. Those visiting us from a trade bloc where we have a valuable relationship are bound to be afforded some preferential treatment don't you agree? Perhaps a trade bloc with India might be better - although looking at out long term skills shortage I doubt the Indians would be that interested.

I too am enjoying these conversations with you - even though we disagree.


Sent from my iPhone in a non-Calde world :-(

 

[Hamilton]

Not what you said though backtracking me thinks

Please find the post. I have asked Westdene to do the same thing.


Sent from my iPhone in a non-Calde world :-(

 

[Bladders]

I'll take the wink as a sign of well-meant sarcasm.

As you'll see from my post history, my views haven't changed one iota. I merely ask questions and point of facts.




Sent from my iPhone in a non-Calde world :-(

I do like you and your contribution, sorry if thats a patronising , its not meant to be.

I though would substitute FACTS for SOME THINGS PEOPLE HAVE FORECAST RE:BREXIT.

 

[pastafarian]

I'm still going to contest the impact of migration on the Uk. It is not a negative impact, but a positive impact.

You seem to have a blinkered view that migration only produces positives.

A recent report
http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/381
The report found positives and negatives dependant on group but found
"that immigration in the UK, taken as a whole, continues to be a fiscal cost"

You quote all positives from groups such as UCL and add

Even Migration Watch have been forced to quote UCL research papers to back up claims they make. What they fail to do on Migration Watch is to quote the research in full.

Migration watch are not forced to do anything,They willingly looked at the UCL study and even followed their methodology in their report(see also questions and answers) in

"We have followed the methodology in the CReAM/UCL study closely. Where we have done something different we have carefully explained why"

"It is notable that a number of our suggestions on the CReAM/UCL discussion paper issued in November 2013 were taken up in their final paper. The CReAM study found a cost of £114 billion (or £18 million a day) over the period 1995-2011 from all migration"
http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/press-release/448

"The main findings can be summarised as follows. Whereas the fiscal cost of the UK-born population amounted to nearly £88bn in 2014/15, EEA immigrants cost £1.2bn and non-EEA immigrants cost £15.6bn, a net cost of £16.8bn. Looking at recent immigrants, i.e. those who came during 2001 and subsequently, the net fiscal cost was £6.2bn, comprised of recent A10 immigrants costing £2.8bn, other recently arrived European immigrants contributing £2.8bn and recent non-European immigrants costing £6.2bn."

Recent immigrant households and groups contribute more in taxes than is spent on them.

The report showed that the HMRC claim that Immigrants contribute more than they receive in benefits was "nonsense"
http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/press-release/448

HMRC arrive at this claim but
"they only compare receipts of income tax and National Insurance with payments of child benefit and tax credits……….on the one hand the comparison does not include taxes like VAT and excise duties, on the other hand it doesn't include housing benefit or any other DWP payments"

"most importantly (HMRC) does not include the cost of any public services whatsoever"

You make no reference to those migrants who are here living and working here illegally and their negative impact
Home Office put this number in 2005 as maybe as high as 570,000
LSE put this number in 2009 as maybe as high as 860,000
Migration watch put this number in 2010 as maybe high as 1.1 million

And what of the other group from The EU here legally but working illegally or living off crime?

There is no evidence that economically motivated immigration has any impact on rates of crime.

So no crime then?
Someone should tell the people that were robbed by these clowns that there was no impact on their lives
The same clowns that are proud of their thieving and will be coming back after they are deported to rob some more…..got to love that free movement eh

Treasury this morning.

have you found some "factual" economic forecasts for the state of the country in 2030 yet …….when we simply remain?

The Tories on both sides of the propaganda war....sorry, debate are talking shite. I'm fast not gong to bother to vote, at this rate...

well done.you began in the thread as an OUTER

I was going to vote OUT

changed your mind to REMAIN

Brexit supporters are nobs.

and now wont bother voting, oh well, on the plus side at least this thread at times has kept you off the streets and away from the general public.