[Politics] Brexit

[nicko31]

Really looking forward to the response to this. This will be some special pleading. "But they lied too" but people don't understand the difference between predictions and outright lies. Even my dad has admitted he voted based on lies. First time he has ever admitted he was wrong. I don't expect people to admit this on an Internet forum though because this has not happen in 20 years on the internet so won't start now.

"I didn't vote for the 350 million anyway I voted about the laws"

"What laws?"

"The ones I don't like"

"Name one"

"It is just not right for us to be dictated to"

"Name one"

"That isn't the point"

"It kind of is"

"Plus our services can't cope with all the immigrants, the NHS is crumbling"

"Immigrants make up a large proportion of NHS staff"

"That's not the point"

"It is though isn't it"

And on it goes. What a time to be alive.

That reminds me of this little snippet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rnyMXIbh-U

 

[nicko31]

Given the pay cap the NHS seems to be fairly dependant on European workers to keep the numbers up. With these numbers falling the base cost rises, given that agency workers cost more. If the pay freeze and cap hadn't been introduced and/or the NHS was fully funded then we would need to rely less on European workers.

I don't see how you can effectively say British jobs for British workers if there are insufficient British workers willing to come forward to undertake the work, or if they do undertake the jobs they leave fairly quickly due to the poor wages.

Talking of strawberries did I not read that the people who supply Wimbledon with their strawberries are having serious problems this year, as most of their European pickers have left the UK, and British workers are reluctant to step in.

All of which indicates that post Brexit when the Tories have got net immigration down there wil be a lot less productivity in the UK due to the unfilled jobs

Brits don't like picking fruit, it may be well paid but its hard work and you have it get up early before the Strawberries go soft

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Or spent replacing the EU money that will he lost. You will recall the likes of Cornwall asking to receive the same from the Government ehen their EU money stops.
Dont forget that projects like the Thames cable car crossing were part funded by the EU regeneration programme so future projects will gave to rely on central funds or they won't be built.

So are we going to borrow even more post Brexit to help the economy while putting even more debt onto future generations or just let the economy shrink and shrink.

Yes some money will be used to replace EU subsidies and funding for projects but the UK will choose how the money is spent .. prioritising our interests, not accommodating 27 other countries interests. Plus we would still have several Billion left over each year some of which could be used to reduce borrowing.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...id-to-bolster-frankfurt-hub-in-london-retreat

"Deutsche Bank AG is preparing to move large parts of the trading and investment banking assets it currently books in London to its hometown of Frankfurt in response to Britain’s exit from the European Union."

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Yes some money will be used to replace EU subsidies and funding for projects but the UK will choose how the money is spent .. prioritising our interests, not accommodating 27 other countries interests. Plus we would still have several Billion left over each year some of which could be used to reduce borrowing.

How do you know there will be money left over? In effect, hundreds of administrative bodies, monitoring groups, agencies and other organisations are outsourced to the EU....so one thing you'll lose is the economies of scale. Take the EMA for example, it will cost the UK much more to set up their own agency.....that's even if the talent exists in the uk. And this is just one of hundreds you need to arrange in the next 18 months.

 

[KVLT]

but the UK will choose how the money is spent.

Great. The same mob that gave us HS2 and Hinkley Point.

It's all well and good banging the 'take back control' drum until you consider the f*cktardery our wonderful sovereign government is capable of.

 

[dazzer6666]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...id-to-bolster-frankfurt-hub-in-london-retreat

"Deutsche Bank AG is preparing to move large parts of the trading and investment banking assets it currently books in London to its hometown of Frankfurt in response to Britain’s exit from the European Union."

DB is a basket case anyway.......

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Great. The same mob that gave us HS2 and Hinkley Point.

It's all well and good banging the 'take back control' drum until you consider the f*cktardery our wonderful sovereign government is capable of.

At least we can vote the f*cktards out! #takebackcontrol

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

At least we can vote the f*cktards out! #takebackcontrol

The way things are going there won't be much left to take control of.

 

[KVLT]

At least we can vote the f*cktards out! #takebackcontrol

Really?

My vote doesn't and never will count for shit round here under our wonderful democracy.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

How do you know there will be money left over? In effect, hundreds of administrative bodies, monitoring groups, agencies and other organisations are outsourced to the EU....so one thing you'll lose is the economies of scale. Take the EMA for example, it will cost the UK much more to set up their own agency.....that's even if the talent exists in the uk. And this is just one of hundreds you need to arrange in the next 18 months.

Fair point there will likely be an initial cost in bolstering/expanding our bodies/agencies or setting up new ones but it would be a tad disappointing if this process ended up costing several Billion every year.

 

[Baldseagull]

As 'It' referred to predictions of big rises in unemployment and recession we can't blame 'it' on anything because 'it' isn't happening. The economy will continue to grow this year and is predicted to grow next year. When will we see a Brexit induced recession and large scale rises in unemployment in your view 2018,19, 20?

If people had kept away from the doomsday nonsense and said exiting the EU will cause a slowing in growth because of uncertainty we could all have had a sensible debate.

I am certain that some of the tens of Billions that would have been sent to Brussels for our future membership fee will be spent on the NHS.

Unless we walk away from negotiations and just cut and run, I am certain any future deal will involve large contributions still to the EU.
The problem with your thinking is, that to do what you call real Brexit and the rest of us call hard brexit, brings about all the shit that you called project fear.
To do it in a way that does not drop us in the shit, will involve us making contributions and accepting EU law in some areas.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Really?

My vote doesn't and never will count for shit round here under our wonderful democracy.

'We' as in the UK electorate.

 

[Baldseagull]

While the subject seems to have swung to lies told by either side,I feel it is time to once and for all settle one of the biggest porkies told by the runners-up time and again;

View attachment 86878

Where does it say anything on there about giving £350m directly to the NHS.Implication does not equal fact.

You are only talking about the misleading implication, there is also the straight out bare faced lie of the contribution we make equalling £350 million a week

 

[Jim in the West]

At least we can vote the f*cktards out! #takebackcontrol

Maybe not....we have a pretty undemocratic democracy. You can easily argue that the EU is far more democratic than the UK (laws are passed by the European Parliament, which is elected via PR). We have the crazy "first past the post" system, whereby 2.4m people voted for the LibDems, who got 12 seats, and fewer than 1m people voted SNP, yet they got 35 seats. If you really want to "take back control" you have to have a proper democratic system. Plus - we have an unelected upper house, and a government which sought to deny MPs the right to vote on triggering Article 50 (the only reason MPs got a vote was die to a High Court ruling!)

You only have to look at the complete balls up the current government is making (of just about everything). I would willingly be ruled by a few Germans, who seem to understand how to properly govern - and what's more are quite proficient in English!

Our rights as EU citizens are well protected. Once we leave the EU we will be at the mercy of Jacob Rees-Mogg and the loony right. Once we've left, the vast majority of the less well off will be royally screwed by the landed gentry who will be the only winners from this disastrous Brexit project.

 

[pastafarian]

For me it's not a question of "coming to terms" with leaving the EU. For as long as we are still in the EU I will campaign to stay. And when/if we leave, I will campaign to re-join. If we do eventually leave, simple demographics mean that the desire to re-join will grow every year. Like it or not, the young are VERY pro-EU. Stats out today show that 85% of young people (18 - 24 yo) want to retain EU citizenship. The elderly, who voted in a large majority to Leave, will die off - to be replaced (as voters) by the young who are increasingly engaged and virtually all pro-EU. For Remainers a soft Brexit is critical, as it will ease the path to re-joining at a later date. But, as each day goes past, the chances of a reversal of Brexit are increasing.

You have just confirmed what Leavers have been saying all along and what many moaners go to great lengths to deny.
That so called soft brexit is completely invented ,really nothing more than a means to an end and not an actual interpretation of the vote at all. Nice to see someone spilling the weasel beans though.
What democratic process are you relying on that backs your belief Brexit will be reversed?

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Unless we walk away from negotiations and just cut and run, I am certain any future deal will involve large contributions still to the EU.
The problem with your thinking is, that to do what you call real Brexit and the rest of us call hard brexit, brings about all the shit that you called project fear.
To do it in a way that does not drop us in the shit, will involve us making contributions and accepting EU law in some areas.

Once we have settled any financial commitments or obligations any future deal will not include large contributions to the EU according to HMG. I am inclined to think they are correct as it would be electoral suicide for any government to sign up to that type of deal. 'Rest of us' meaning people that agree with your specific definitions of Hard, Soft, Real Brexit. No one knows what the final deal will look like or if there will even be one. But I would expect any deal to include some small contributions for joint ventures we wish to continue/join.

 

[Baldseagull]

Yes some money will be used to replace EU subsidies and funding for projects but the UK will choose how the money is spent .. prioritising our interests, not accommodating 27 other countries interests. Plus we would still have several Billion left over each year some of which could be used to reduce borrowing.

Fantasist.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Maybe not....we have a pretty undemocratic democracy. You can easily argue that the EU is far more democratic than the UK (laws are passed by the European Parliament, which is elected via PR). We have the crazy "first past the post" system, whereby 2.4m people voted for the LibDems, who got 12 seats, and fewer than 1m people voted SNP, yet they got 35 seats. If you really want to "take back control" you have to have a proper democratic system. Plus - we have an unelected upper house, and a government which sought to deny MPs the right to vote on triggering Article 50 (the only reason MPs got a vote was die to a High Court ruling!)

You only have to look at the complete balls up the current government is making (of just about everything). I would willingly be ruled by a few Germans, who seem to understand how to properly govern - and what's more are quite proficient in English!

Our rights as EU citizens are well protected. Once we leave the EU we will be at the mercy of Jacob Rees-Mogg and the loony right. Once we've left, the vast majority of the less well off will be royally screwed by the landed gentry who will be the only winners from this disastrous Brexit project.

This probably won't come as a surprise .. I disagree.

 

[pastafarian]

I would willingly be ruled by a few Germans, who seem to understand how to properly govern - and what's more are quite proficient in English!