[Politics] Brexit

[jakarta]

Consider by way of an example if there was another referendum on, say, capital punishment or flogging (both of which Brexit voters on balance apparently want) and the hangers and floggers won, with the result that the UK was chucked out of a number of international bodies, there were riots in the street and huge amounts of foreign direct investment were cancelled.

That's right, no-one invests in Countries that have Capital Punishment, it's why China and USA are both so impoverished...

 

[Triggaaar]

"Anyone" can be used as a sound substitute for "everyone" in some cases.

There are examples, like one you gave earlier, where the meaning will be very similar - eg "anyone who is stupid enough to vote leave deserves what they get". That means that any one person who voted against your advice, deserves what they get, which is very much like saying they all deserve what they get. But that example is not like the one we are discussing. In the one we are discussing it has a completely different meaning.

The original point by BB, that I typed "anyone who votes Brexit is thick" is incorrect. I didn't type it. Simple. Again, no argument.

I'm not arguing with that.

But you then said "I never stated anyone who voted leave was thick." You weren't quoting BB, you didn't use quotation marks. And you're wrong. You're trying to argue that it's the same as "I never stated everyone who voted leave was thick", but it isn't, it's completely different.

You are wrong on both counts now please

I'm correct on the one count, that your statement was wrong. If the other count you mean is whether "anyone" is the same as "everyone", nope, I'm correct about that too.

pretty please with a cherry on top, stop going on about it.

No. I'm right and I know I'm right, so I'm not going to ignore you pretending that black is white.

You are wrong and you are thick and you are annoying.

Bless.

 

[The Clamp]

There are examples, like one you gave earlier, where the meaning will be very similar - eg "anyone who is stupid enough to vote leave deserves what they get". That means that any one person who voted against your advice, deserves what they get, which is very much like saying they all deserve what they get. But that example is not like the one we are discussing. In the one we are discussing it has a completely different meaning.

I'm not arguing with that.

But you then said "I never stated anyone who voted leave was thick." You weren't quoting BB, you didn't use quotation marks. And you're wrong. You're trying to argue that it's the same as "I never stated everyone who voted leave was thick", but it isn't, it's completely different.

I'm correct on the one count, that your statement was wrong. If the other count you mean is whether "anyone" is the same as "everyone", nope, I'm correct about that too.
No. I'm right and I know I'm right, so I'm not going to ignore you pretending that black is white.
Bless.

Yes, yes it is exactly like the one are discusiing. You are failing to understand that. I literally have no energy to keep trying to explain to you. If you think you are right then please be satified with the knowledge you are correct and I am an idiot but please just drop it you wally.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

That's right, no-one invests in Countries that have Capital Punishment, it's why China and USA are both so impoverished...

I supposed we could let this roll on to an argument about hanging and flogging but this thread is busy enough already. I was simply (as I suppose you knew) making a point about how certain policy decisions can have wide and concealed implications and it is important that the people who make them are fully advised and completely accountable, that being how our government works.

Having said that, I'm curious. Are you one of the Brexit voters apparently keen on hanging and flogging?

 

[jakarta]

I supposed we could let this roll on to an argument about hanging and flogging but this thread is busy enough already. I was simply (as I suppose you knew) making a point about how certain policy decisions can have wide and concealed implications and it is important that the people who make them are fully advised and completely accountable, that being how our government works.

Having said that, I'm curious. Are you one of the Brexit voters apparently keen on hanging and flogging?

How civilised of you, I presume you don't buy any Chinese or USA products then?

In answer to your second point I would be happy to see Capital Punishment in certain cases e.g. those cvnts who murdered Lee Rigby...

 

[Triggaaar]

Yes, yes it is exactly like the one are discusiing.

No it isn't.
"I never stated anyone who voted leave was thick"
is completely different to
"I never stated everyone who voted leave was thick"

You can't even decide what your arguments is. On the one hand you're saying it wasn't you that said it, it was BB. The reason you're saying it was someone else is because you know deep down it's wrong. You then tried to argue that it was obvious what BB meant - again highlighting the fact that you know you got it wrong, and now you're relying on readers to know what you meant even though you got wrong. And finally, despite passing the blame to someone else and saying people would know what it meant, you're also arguing that "anyone" and "everyone" means the same thing, even though they clearly don't.

please just drop it you wally.

You're asking me to drop it at the same time as telling me I'm wrong. Obviously that's not going to happen, since I know for a fact that I'm right.

 

[Triggaaar]

Could I respectfully suggest that Triggaaar and The Clamp get a F***ING ROOM AND STOP POSTING INANE DRIVEL ON HERE

If this was a sensible thread with informative debate I'd agree with you, but this thread is over 30,000 posts long and I suspect most of it is drivel and pathetic arguing, so this is probably the right place for it.

 

[Two Professors]

For lord's sake don't look out of your front door then. You may find you're living in Birmingham.

Not proud enough of where you live to show it then?

 

[Two Professors]

I see. Very good. No. I don't work for a place called Wettons and I don't clean toilets. Kind of makes your "joke" rather obsolete doesn't it. Good effort though, I'm sure you gave some of The Fairy Godfathers a chuckle.

So sorry.That will teach me not to listen to people in the bar at away games!

 

[Two Professors]

One of the few British cities I've left from thinking and genuinely meaning "I will never go back there if I can help it". The other was Coventry. Both utter holes.

Good.Midlanders,a lot of whom are brown,tend not to like bigots.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Good.Midlanders,a lot of whom are brown,tend not to like bigots.

Birmingham is okay. Some other surrounding areas have some weird people living in them though.

 

[Two Professors]

Birmingham is okay. Some other surrounding areas have some weird people living in them though.

So does Brighton,if Robert Rankin is to be believed!

 

[The Clamp]

No it isn't.
"I never stated anyone who voted leave was thick"
is completely different to
"I never stated everyone who voted leave was thick"

You can't even decide what your arguments is. On the one hand you're saying it wasn't you that said it, it was BB. The reason you're saying it was someone else is because you know deep down it's wrong. You then tried to argue that it was obvious what BB meant - again highlighting the fact that you know you got it wrong, and now you're relying on readers to know what you meant even though you got wrong. And finally, despite passing the blame to someone else and saying people would know what it meant, you're also arguing that "anyone" and "everyone" means the same thing, even though they clearly don't.

You're asking me to drop it at the same time as telling me I'm wrong. Obviously that's not going to happen, since I know for a fact that I'm right.

Actually, no it really isn't completely different. Anyway, you are going to make yourself ill. I know I'm right and you know you're right. It's not going to get resolved so I'd follow my example and get yourself to a beer garden. I'm sure it won't seem so paramount after a couple of beers. Have a lovely weekend, I hope that anyone tht goes to the pub tonight enjoys it and I hope that everyone who goes to the pub tonight enjoys it (see, it easy really)

 

[The Clamp]

So sorry.That will teach me not to listen to people in the bar at away games!

I don't think I would be alone in thinking that if you are in a bar with friends at an away match and the only thing you can find to talk about is whether The Clamp cleans toilets at Wettons you're even more of a **** than I thought.

 

[pastafarian]

Gibraltar not happy with Spain or The EU draft guidelines


PRESS RELEASE
No: 210/2017
Date: 31st March 2017


HM Government of Gibraltar‘s Statement on European Council Draft Guidelines
Her Majesty’s Government of Gibraltar notes the reference to Gibraltar in the draft Guidelines
published by the European Council today.

Issues related to Gibraltar’s continued access to the UK market and access to trade deals with
the rest of the world are outside the scope of the final negotiating parameters which will be
established by the EU Council by the end of April.

Her Majesty’s Government of Gibraltar will continue its work on Brexit matters on the lines we
have already established. The exit negotiations clearly include Gibraltar despite Spain’s attempts
to also have Gibraltar excluded from them.

Gibraltar has shamefully been singled out, however, for unfavourable treatment by the Council,
at the behest of Spain, in these draft guidelines in respect of the second agreement on the future
between the UK and the EU.

The Chief Minister of Gibraltar, Hon Fabian Picardo QC MP, said: “This unnecessary, unjustified
and unacceptable discriminatory proposed singling out of Gibraltar and its people was the
predictable machination of Spain that the people of Gibraltar foresaw and one of the reasons why
we voted so massively to remain in the EU. Gibraltar’s record as a member of the EU is an
exemplary one and our people enthusiastically supported continued membership of the EU in the
referendum. Yet this draft suggests that Spain is trying to get away with mortgaging the future
relationship between the EU and Gibraltar to its usual obsession with our homeland. This is a
disgraceful attempt by Spain to manipulate the European Council for its own, narrow, political
interests. Brexit is already complicated enough without Spain trying to complicate it further.

“What we are seeing is a clear manifestation of the predictably predatory attitude that we
anticipated Spain would seek to abusively impose on its partners, as they have been threatening
to do since the referendum took place and as the only member of the EU with an obsession with
Gibraltar. This will surprise no-one. Spain has been holding the whole EU to ransom on aviation
matters for the past five years in respect of Gibraltar airport. The whole world and the whole EU
should know: this changes nothing in respect of our continued, exclusive British Sovereignty. The
fact is that during and beyond the Brexit process, Gibraltar will continue to grow and prosper
economically and will, paradoxically, provide wealth for the whole Spanish region around us.”


ENDS

https://www.gibraltar.gov.gi/new/sites/default/files/press/2017//210-2017.pdf

 

[Soulman]

Gibraltar not happy with Spain or The EU draft guidelines


PRESS RELEASE
No: 210/2017
Date: 31st March 2017


HM Government of Gibraltar‘s Statement on European Council Draft Guidelines
Her Majesty’s Government of Gibraltar notes the reference to Gibraltar in the draft Guidelines
published by the European Council today.

Issues related to Gibraltar’s continued access to the UK market and access to trade deals with
the rest of the world are outside the scope of the final negotiating parameters which will be
established by the EU Council by the end of April.

Her Majesty’s Government of Gibraltar will continue its work on Brexit matters on the lines we
have already established. The exit negotiations clearly include Gibraltar despite Spain’s attempts
to also have Gibraltar excluded from them.

Gibraltar has shamefully been singled out, however, for unfavourable treatment by the Council,
at the behest of Spain, in these draft guidelines in respect of the second agreement on the future
between the UK and the EU.

The Chief Minister of Gibraltar, Hon Fabian Picardo QC MP, said: “This unnecessary, unjustified
and unacceptable discriminatory proposed singling out of Gibraltar and its people was the
predictable machination of Spain that the people of Gibraltar foresaw and one of the reasons why
we voted so massively to remain in the EU. Gibraltar’s record as a member of the EU is an
exemplary one and our people enthusiastically supported continued membership of the EU in the
referendum. Yet this draft suggests that Spain is trying to get away with mortgaging the future
relationship between the EU and Gibraltar to its usual obsession with our homeland. This is a
disgraceful attempt by Spain to manipulate the European Council for its own, narrow, political
interests. Brexit is already complicated enough without Spain trying to complicate it further.

“What we are seeing is a clear manifestation of the predictably predatory attitude that we
anticipated Spain would seek to abusively impose on its partners, as they have been threatening
to do since the referendum took place and as the only member of the EU with an obsession with
Gibraltar. This will surprise no-one. Spain has been holding the whole EU to ransom on aviation
matters for the past five years in respect of Gibraltar airport. The whole world and the whole EU
should know: this changes nothing in respect of our continued, exclusive British Sovereignty. The
fact is that during and beyond the Brexit process, Gibraltar will continue to grow and prosper
economically and will, paradoxically, provide wealth for the whole Spanish region around us.”


ENDS

https://www.gibraltar.gov.gi/new/sites/default/files/press/2017//210-2017.pdf

Does this mean it pisses on a few peoples fireworks, i reckon some will be disappointed by this good news.
When i went to Gib the people there were very pro Britain.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Does this mean it pisses on a few peoples fireworks, i reckon some will be disappointed by this good news.
When i went to Gib the people there were very pro Britain.

How is this good news?

They are also pro remain

 

[knocky1]

Does this mean it pisses on a few peoples fireworks, i reckon some will be disappointed by this good news.
When i went to Gib the people there were very pro Britain.

Britain in the EU is what they wanted. No doubt the EU will look forward to the paradoxical economic growth provided by Gibraltar

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

I don't think it is.

If the Tories mishandle the Brexit planning then they can be punished at the ballot box. But if Brexit is shown to be a bad idea in itself there is no one to punish because the politicians (and by extension parliament) have delegated all responsibility for the decision to the general public. It is for this reason that the two most significant prime ministers since the war, Clement Attlee and Margaret Thatcher, who probably agreed on nothing else, were both utterly dismissive of referendums. Referendums absolve politicians of responsibility. They are a cop out. There is, quite literally, no one to blame of a referendum comes up with an unworkable result.

Consider by way of an example if there was another referendum on, say, capital punishment or flogging (both of which Brexit voters on balance apparently want) and the hangers and floggers won, with the result that the UK was chucked out of a number of international bodies, there were riots in the street and huge amounts of foreign direct investment were cancelled. The government could either say "we must carry on, the people have spoken, it's not our fault, we're off the hook whatever happens" or, on the other hand, "bugger that, they have made the wrong decision and, as politicians of principle with copious background information and in receipt of the finest advice, we're going to ignore the vote and do what we think is right".

I know which I prefer. And sadly, I know what Theresa May, fresh from arguing against Brexit, is intending to do.

The "will of the people" line is just to remind us it has nothing to do with them IF it goes wrong.

 

[SeagullinExile]

Well then. The EU begins to show its true colours today. Just like the mafia, once in always in, and woe betide anyone who tries to escape!

Not the sort of club I want to be a member of thank you.