[Politics] Brexit

[GT49er]

The same mutually beneficial agreement as Canada's CETA arrangement that took 7 years to finalise or the same as Japan's free trade agreement, that they hope will be finalised this year after just 4 years of talks? Japan is the 3rd biggest economy in the world, the EU's 6th largest export market and The EU's is Japan's 3rd largest export market. Common sense would be for the 2 sides to do a deal there, but still it drags on.

Canada's and Japan's economies crashed and burned lately, have they? I believe they're both busily importing and exporting at the moment too.

 

[GT49er]

My humble apologies for not reading 283,670 posts. I'll have a word with myself.

Fair enough. I doubt if many people could be arsed to read it all through first time round either!

 

[vegster]

Not posted on this thread for a while, but this is one of those rare, balanced Brexit articles that are worth sharing. IMO. Worth a read.


Brexiters and Remainers both fail to grasp the challenges facing Britain

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-leave?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

Interesting article. Indeed we are stuffed either way unless we address the core problems with our two speed economy. Even May identified with those " Left behind who feel that feel that the economy does not work for them " but then stubbornly goes on cutting benefits and services for the least well off.. Austerity is here to stay for the many, the "Gig " economy of low wage/long hours with minimal benefits will continue and we have to pin our hopes of a "Good " Brexit on the likes of David Davis and Liam Fox and the goodwill of the rest of Europe. Is it any wonder people are fearful and miserable ?

Mrs May sadly does not have what it takes to get us through this crisis and I for one can't trust her one inch. As Groucho Marx once said " These are my principles and, if you do not like them......well, I have others "

 

[JC Footy Genius]

You're right in what you say there. Small matter of 38 national and regional parliaments to potentially ratify any deal with us too.

Somewhat cumbersome ... not a very efficient way to run a trade block or fledgeling Superstate!

 

[ManOfSussex]

Canada's and Japan's economies crashed and burned lately, have they? I believe they're both busily importing and exporting at the moment too.

They're not leaving The EEA and potentially having trade barriers imposed with 44% of their export market and 53% of their import market and potentially having a major economic reboot though.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Somewhat cumbersome ... not a very efficient way to run a trade block

I can only agree with you again on that.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

So here is a case where you are not tracking back over posts, why ever not?

I think you are looking at events like this, when they arise, through a different lens to the vast majority of people in this country and in Europe.
When this point started on this thread, the only point that was made by me was that I speculated that the culprit would not be a native German.......a point that was proven.
The problem for you (and others that see the world the way you do) is that you are trying to create a narrative with these attacks that does not reconcile with reality.

1. Tracking back over posts? Are you referring to that nonsense about workers moving around countries? If so, tell me when I 'tracked back' please. (I was happy to let you get away with it...)

2. I know that your speculation about the nationality of the culprit was correct. If I had chosen to speculate I would have said the same. But I wouldn't have speculated about it, any more than I would have speculated about Jo Cox's murderer. And for the same reason.

3. I appreciate it is quite a nice phrase, but am not trying to create a narrative that reconciles with anything. I am making a small and specific point.

 

[GT49er]

They're not leaving The EEA and potentially having trade barriers imposed with 44% of their export market and 53% of their import market and potentially having a major economic reboot though.

They don't have to leave: they're already out - and have survived and thrived for many years without a trade agreement.

NB This doesn't mean I don't think the Brexit negotiating team shouldn't try to negotiate a trade deal: they are useful, after all. It's just that, unlike some, I realise that Armageddon is NOT just round the corner!

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Completely agree. Nobody that I noticed put it that way. I think you'll find that the general mantra of remainers was that all the people who voted leave are thick and unqualified. Which Soulman's entry clearly refutes.

I am pleased to learn that Soulman refutes the claim that the general mantra of Remainers is that all people who voted Leave are thick and unqualified. He's right - it's not the general mantra at all. I am happy to lend my support to his position on this.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

A thoughtful piece for both sides of the argument?

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ibasi-ippr-article-50-referendum-remain-leave

Interesting piece, although it is wrong to say that all Remainers thought that everything was fine and dandy across the UK. This country has been dreadfully run for most of my lifetime and huge numbers of people have become disconnected from the guilty people in power. You don't have to know areas like Lincolnshire and the rustbelt northern cities to be aware of that although it might help. I can understand why they stuck their middle fingers in the air on June 23 although my argument (which I won't restate here) is that it didn't have much at all to do with our membership of the European Union.

 

[pastafarian]

It's all Camerons fault he should never have called it, he under estimated the stupidity of a small majority of the public.

Couldn’t agree more.
Cameron was probably relying on these people to explain the benefits of being in the EU, instead they ignored that and went about calling everyone thicko racists who simply distrust foreigners and then helped in the spreading of ridiculous scare mongering doom laden scenarios instead.
Cameron must rue the day these people handed brexit on a plate to the other side with their stupidity.

 

[ManOfSussex]

They don't have to leave: they're already out - and have survived and thrived for many years without a trade agreement.

NB This doesn't mean I don't think the Brexit negotiating team shouldn't try to negotiate a trade deal: they are useful, after all. It's just that, unlike some, I realise that Armageddon is NOT just round the corner!

True - but they haven't been members of The EEA for over 40+ years and are not potentially undoing all the subsequent economic (and a lot of other stuff too) intertwining that has occurred in that time. They were both very keen to sign into free trade agreements with The EU though.

As for The UK and The EU - we'll see what we see.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

They don't have to leave: they're already out - and have survived and thrived for many years without a trade agreement.

NB This doesn't mean I don't think the Brexit negotiating team shouldn't try to negotiate a trade deal: they are useful, after all. It's just that, unlike some, I realise that Armageddon is NOT just round the corner!

Fine. But promise me you won't start moaning if the EU fight and play hard for the best deal for them.

 

[pastafarian]

Are the leavers jumping for joy that all the coffee stores sandwich shops and hotels are about to disappear?

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/mar/11/eu-hospitality-workers-brexit-pret-a-manger-hotels-restaurants

Approx 3 million people are employed in the hospitality industry.
Im fairly certain all the coffee stores sandwich shops and hotels are not about to disappear post brexit as you are hoping for.
Good scare rubbish though, not quite as good as your claim controlling immigration will end up removing the free press though, that one was spectacular and straight out of Ripping Yarns.

Out of interest since you have convinced yourself that you and your children are going to be much poorer by being in the UK and that their future is ruined, where are you planning to move to to rectify this situation? Or are you just going to stay here, constantly whine and let them fester in their own poverty?

I would suspect that for EU unity they will want a deal that clearly shows the UK to be in a worse position than we are now.

So fully expect the EU to play hard ball.

I expect many European people are hoping their own leaders don’t play too hard ball and that their own jobs are not sacrificed simply to prove a political point. This has a way of backfiring when elections come about.

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

My humble apologies for not reading 283,670 posts. I'll have a word with myself.

If not why not.

 

[cunning fergus]

1. Tracking back over posts? Are you referring to that nonsense about workers moving around countries? If so, tell me when I 'tracked back' please. (I was happy to let you get away with it...)

2. I know that your speculation about the nationality of the culprit was correct. If I had chosen to speculate I would have said the same. But I wouldn't have speculated about it, any more than I would have speculated about Jo Cox's murderer. And for the same reason.

3. I appreciate it is quite a nice phrase, but am not trying to create a narrative that reconciles with anything. I am making a small and specific point.

I thought you had some automated way of validating historical posts, ergo our knock-a-bout this week about explicitly what I had posted previously about controlling the UK labour market. I genuinely appreciate your own personal view that you prefer open borders, however if it was nonsense countries around the world would not require foreigners to apply for visas in order to work and reside in their countries.

Yes, I was correct........this message football board is chock-a-block with threads speculating about everything and anything, yet for some reason whenever there is a terror style attack all of a sudden such speculation (no matter how rational) should be closed down. I don't get it.........its like you want to censor people's views?

Make any point you like, I'm a liberal when it comes to free speech (see above).

 

[cunning fergus]

I don't meet many like this; I'm normally long gone when the lights have come on and the bouncer's asking if I've got a home to go to.

I see, do you think the Czech Republic is only exporting "hotties" or do you think it's more of a mixture with there some right old Czech rotters working in UK coffee shops too?

 

[cunning fergus]

I think you need to wait and see the outcome of the negotiations before you can say you've won.

Whatever the outcome, we should also have 44 years to make the most of Brexit...........given that is the time in, it's only fair out gets the same crack of the whip.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Whatever the outcome, we should also have 44 years to make the most of Brexit...........given that is the time in, it's only fair out gets the same crack of the whip.

Your confidence in success is noted.

 

[studio150]

Whatever the outcome, we should also have 44 years to make the most of Brexit...........given that is the time in, it's only fair out gets the same crack of the whip.

So 44 years of being worse off before leavers admit getting our country back wasn't financially worthwhile.