[Politics] Brexit

[cunning fergus]

Rather than answer questions you just attempt to deflect them with bluster. This is the latest example. It seems to make you happy in a cheating-at-patience sort of way. Are you Michael Howard?

It's not bluster though is it?

It is an irrefutable fact that most countries operate controls on who can visit, reside and work in their countries.

Out the of the EU the UK can operate on exactly the same basis?

I think you are only struggling to understand (or accept) this point because you simply disagree with it.

You need to overcome your own prejudice on this matter......then we can move on.

 

[cunning fergus]

No, the problem is this:

The freedom of labour is the worst example of this (a free market) because quite evidently not being able to manage supply and demand is disastrous.
Therefore my view would apply within a state or as with the EU across a group of states, it makes no difference.

You posted the above.

But now you say it does not apply equally, and a free market in labour is fine inside UK borders, but still not fine inside EU borders.
So either you changed your mind, or you were posting bollocks the first time round.
Fine if you changed your mind, beat the rush, most leave voters will be doing it soon.
Fine if you posted something that gave the wrong impression, just admit that it was your writing and not everyone else's reading that gave the wrong impression.
But you post bollocks, deny posting bollocks, then when bollocks is put in front of you deny it is bollocks.

I understand you think you are going to look a bit silly if you fess up now, but truthfully, you already do, in fact the only way you can rescue it now is to say you knew it was bollocks, but just thought you would try and wind me and the Imp up a bit.

OK let's do free markets 1.01.....

Do I agree with them generally? No, I want controls.

Do I agree with them in EU? No, I want controls.

Do I agree with them in UK? No, I want controls.

Do I agree to a free labour market in the EU? No, I want controls.

Do I agree to a free labour market in the UK? No, I want controls.

If we allow foreign workers to come to the UK freely and without any controls we are operating a free labour market in the UK. I disagree with this.

I want restrictions on foreign workers not UK workers.

What are you struggling with Baldy?

 

[studio150]

OK let's do free markets 1.01.....

Do I agree with them generally? No, I want controls.

Do I agree with them in EU? No, I want controls.

Do I agree with them in UK? No, I want controls.

Do I agree to a free labour market in the EU? No, I want controls.

Do I agree to a free labour market in the UK? No, I want controls.

If we allow foreign workers to come to the UK freely and without any controls we are operating a free labour market in the UK. I disagree with this.

I want restrictions on foreign workers not UK workers.

What are you struggling with Baldy?

Well done ask yourself questions rather than answer those posed.

 

[Baldseagull]

OK let's do free markets 1.01.....

Do I agree with them generally? No, I want controls.

Do I agree with them in EU? No, I want controls.

Do I agree with them in UK? No, I want controls.

Do I agree to a free labour market in the EU? No, I want controls.

Do I agree to a free labour market in the UK? No, I want controls.

If we allow foreign workers to come to the UK freely and without any controls we are operating a free labour market in the UK. I disagree with this.

I want restrictions on foreign workers not UK workers.

What are you struggling with Baldy?

None of the above.
The bit I am struggling with is the bit where you said previously, that your feelings about free movement of labour would apply equally across a nation state as across the EU.

 

[cunning fergus]

None of the above.
The bit I am struggling with is the bit where you said previously, that your feelings about free movement of labour would apply equally across a nation state as across the EU.

On the contrary everything is quite clear and nothing I have explained in my last or previous post is contentious to the vast majority of people who understand (like me) why uncontrolled markets are disastrous.

The fact is you want freedom of movement, you want uncontrolled labour markets in the EU and no doubt elsewhere.

You have however lost the argument about this in the UK and you are sore about it.......the social liberal free market political narrative you support is dying.

What lesson shall we do next then Baldy?

 

[cunning fergus]

Well done ask yourself questions rather than answer those posed.

In all honesty I think it's a measure of your own cerebral difficulties that have meant I resorted to dealing with your challenge in this "Cat sat on the mat" style.......i usually feel disappointed to have dumb down my discourse but sometimes you need to reconcile your approach to communication with the audience.

 

[Baldseagull]

On the contrary everything is quite clear and nothing I have explained in my last or previous post is contentious to the vast majority of people who understand (like me) why uncontrolled markets are disastrous.

The fact is you want freedom of movement, you want uncontrolled labour markets in the EU and no doubt elsewhere.

You have however lost the argument about this in the UK and you are sore about it.......the social liberal free market political narrative you support is dying.

What lesson shall we do next then Baldy?

Learning the meaning of "apply equally"?

 

[Lincoln Imp]

If you had meant that you did not want the EU single market to extend to the UK, as you now claim, then you would have said so. Instead, you said, perfectly clearly, that you disagree with freedom of labour movement whether it is within a state or across a group of states. There is only one way of interpreting that.

I think that one of the problems is that you are not quite as clever as you think you are. In fairness, I don't think anyone is as clever as you think you are.

 

[beorhthelm]

None of the above.
The bit I am struggling with is the bit where you said previously, that your feelings about free movement of labour would apply equally across a nation state as across the EU.

its pretty clear he does apply it equally to the nation as much as EU - he supports controlled labour markets, presumably through unions or guilds operating closed shops for most or all industry and commerce.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

if you had meant that you did not want the eu single market to extend to the uk, as you now claim, then you would have said so. Instead, you said, perfectly clearly, that you disagree with freedom of labour movement whether it is within a state or across a group of states. There is only one way of interpreting that.

I think that one of the problems is that you are not quite as clever as you think you are. In fairness, i don't think anyone is as clever as you think you are.

priceless
regards
DR

 

[brighton fella]

It would be difficult to accept leavers lies as well, thats not what im asking.

Also, I asked you if you had any evidence to your post regarding electricians in the UK being undercut pricewise by foreigners. As there is a shortage of skilled electricians in the UK, im interested in how you came to that conclusion.

Evidence evidence and more f*cking evidence with you isn't it. obsessed.

Wheres's the evidence that you are from this planet .

 

[brighton fella]

If you had meant that you did not want the EU single market to extend to the UK, as you now claim, then you would have said so. Instead, you said, perfectly clearly, that you disagree with freedom of labour movement whether it is within a state or across a group of states. There is only one way of interpreting that.

I think that one of the problems is that you are not quite as clever as you think you are. In fairness, I don't think anyone is as clever as you think you are.

 

[daveinprague]

Evidence evidence and more f*cking evidence with you isn't it. obsessed.

Wheres's the evidence that you are from this planet .

Ah, the man with no answers. Got any more cool stories today? The one you made up yesterday was great. Total bollocks, but great in the sense it made you look more of a dickhead than usual.

 

[brighton fella]

Ah, the man with no answers. Got any more cool stories today? The one you made up yesterday was great. Total bollocks, but great in the sense it made you look more of a dickhead than usual.

What is the point, if i said black you'd say white.
And i didn't mean that racially. before you start any accusations.

 

[studio150]

In all honesty I think it's a measure of your own cerebral difficulties that have meant I resorted to dealing with your challenge in this "Cat sat on the mat" style.......i usually feel disappointed to have dumb down my discourse but sometimes you need to reconcile your approach to communication with the audience.

Maybe as a start you should actually read what you have previously written. To assist you:

I would protect their wages by managing supply and demand, and if this is done properly this should also mean that they should see an increase in living and social conditions by not being in competition for schools housing etc.

To make it perfectly simple, and everyone accepts that you have banned any foreign worker from working, how are you going to manage supply and demand.

Perhaps a start would be to actually respond to a situation that was outlined to you previously. Feel free to put as many cats on the mat as you need to, as clearly nobody is in the same universe as you.


You have previously stated that you would control the internal labour market to ensure that the workers aren't poorly paid. To achieve this you gave stated that you would control demand thereby ensuring workers would remain employed with wages that improve living standards.

You have not explained how this would be achieved, nor have you given any examples of countries where this is successfully achieved and how it is achieved.

One additional question on this utopia. How does it promote technology advancements which would reduce the need for labour in that sector.

As an example on Chinese railways they previously employed thousands of workers to stand by the track at regular distances holding a flag to wave the train through.

In terms of wages in this example it doesn't matter whether more or less trains run as the worker with the flag will still be paid to be by the track.

The Chinese then decide to introduce automatic signalling So that signals replace all The flag track workers.

You now have thousands and thousands of unemployed workers whose only skill is to wave a flag when a train arrives.

So what do you do with these workers that are now out of work. Do you have to pay them benefits to the same level of their pay just to sit at home.
Or Do you say that there are vacancies in a town 250 miles away where you will be retrained. However the ex track workers don't want to change areas.

How would your utopia deal with this?


Please feel free to take your time to ensure that you have all the cats you need to fully answer this question and provide the fullest answer possible so that we can all understand your interventionist position.

 

[portslade seagull]

Why can't people just accept the result. This now has more side issues with remainers clasping at every straw

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Why can't people just accept the result. This now has more side issues with remainers clasping at every straw

Might be worth copying that in to The House of Lords. And that Matthew Paris in The Times today. He said something a bit critical. Tell him to shut up too.

Go on with you!

 

[Soulman]

It would be difficult to accept leavers lies as well, thats not what im asking.

Also, I asked you if you had any evidence to your post regarding electricians in the UK being undercut pricewise by foreigners. As there is a shortage of skilled electricians in the UK, im interested in how you came to that conclusion.

Ok. Firstly most of the electricians from overseas work in London. The JIB rate in London is higher, and FYI that generally covers the immediate M25 section.
I can tell you that the rate in London has dropped.
I could also explain to you (again) how the JIB,which we con tribute to has been used to train sparks in Eastern European countries, mainly Poland. The money is paid back because they are guaranteed a job here, the money is docked from their wages.
The sparks that come here trained in their own country and not by the JIB are not of a very good standard and end up house bashing.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Matthew Paris in The Times today

A whiff of panic? A Downing Street spokesman argued on Monday that the reason there should be no “meaningful” Commons vote on the final Brexit deal is that this would encourage the EU to offer unacceptable terms. Intellectually this is the strongest argument against any second bite at the democratic cherry, but it makes an admission that Brexiteers would be foolish to countenance: that public opinion on Brexit might change. The very idea is dynamite, for no government could ignore such a development. Better by far for Brexiteers to stick their fingers in their ears and chant “Case concluded, la la la”.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/it-s-queer-the-way-some-words-fall-out-of-favour-xrcvgsk92

Did you read his Spectator article last week? - http://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/03/from-now-on-ill-greet-brexiteers-with-a-grin/

 

[Baldseagull]

Ok. Firstly most of the electricians from overseas work in London. The JIB rate in London is higher, and FYI that generally covers the immediate M25 section.
I can tell you that the rate in London has dropped.
I could also explain to you (again) how the JIB,which we con tribute to has been used to train sparks in Eastern European countries, mainly Poland. The money is paid back because they are guaranteed a job here, the money is docked from their wages.
The sparks that come here trained in their own country and not by the JIB are not of a very good standard and end up house bashing.

There are more sparks from Yorkshire than Poland working in London.