[Politics] Brexit

[DavidinSouthampton]

Ok,
So "Things are going OK because of the various experts (that Michael Gove et al rubbished before June 23rd) and the excellent work that they did at the Bank of England and elsewhere.".
Funny how nothing was in place because Brexit was not an option, it was not forecast, the polls did not support it and Cameron put his job on the line.....so don't pretend that a plan was in place.
Brexit is working well (so far) because your "experts" were wrong.

Nothing was in place? The Bank of England is independent of the Government, and I am sure that they knew EXACTLY what they were going to do in the event of a BREXIT vote. Mark carney is enormously capable, and would have had all the bases covered. if he had not, he would have deserved to be sacked.

 

[GT49er]

Can you tell me exactly what freedom this is ? And, will this freedom genuinely make our life better ? bear in mind you will still have to pay your taxes,have a driving license,conform to many health and safety rules etc etc . What is personally going to happen to you on the sacred day ? And, what happens when we leave and your life is the same ? what are you going to blame then ?

Oh for heaven's sake! Taxes? Driving licence? No problem with those - I've had a driving licence long before we joined the EEC, and I'm perfectly happy to pay my taxes - that's me contributing (albeit only a little) to society. The only blot on my horizon will be remoaners forever banging on, and frankly, even that won't bother me much.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

No it is a characteristic of someone who does not agree to use a term like "fascism to dismiss" .....that and similar trotted out words.

I am sorry, but I don't understand what you are getting at.

I was not getting at anyone in particular. I was merely intending to state that many political scientists and historians would hols that it is a characteristic of fascism to "dismiss" experts. It happened in germany in the 1930s.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

So you agree it's the best option? if not, what would you have done?

1.) I wouldn't have encouraged even more migrants/refugees to come. Do you think this was a bad idea?

2.) I wouldn't lecture about the morality of dealing with dubious regimes if your preferred option would mean dealing with dubious regimes x10.

3.) I wouldn't vote to stay in a political project that sends Billions to this dubious regime no matter what. More to come.

 

[GT49er]

I am sorry, but I don't understand what you are getting at.

I was not getting at anyone in particular. I was merely intending to state that many political scientists and historians would hols that it is a characteristic of fascism to "dismiss" experts. It happened in germany in the 1930s.

I believe it also happened in Russia in various parts of the 20th. century.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Nothing was in place? The Bank of England is independent of the Government, and I am sure that they knew EXACTLY what they were going to do in the event of a BREXIT vote. Mark carney is enormously capable, and would have had all the bases covered. if he had not, he would have deserved to be sacked.

Mark Carney's appointment was agreed/sanctioned by George Osbourne. If Mark Carney was 'enormously capable' he might have known the UK populace would have ignored 'expert' guesswork and carried on spending which had a far greater impact on the economy than a tiny reduction in interest rates or quantitative easing.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Its a characteristic of a fool, to offer a status of expert to a person or body that has been proven wrong often and recently, take your pick ??

The "Expert" Governor of the Bank of England and his staff knew what they were doing. That is why we came out of it relatively unscathed. I don't expect it to last.

Are you not able to realise that Mark Carney et al at the Bank of England are those in a position to take measures to influence how our economy performs. They knew what the likely impact of BREXIT would be, would have known WELL IN ADVANCE what they might need to do if the BREXIT vote happened, and did it.

Let's see where we are in six month's time. Until then, I am out of here.

 

[BigGully]

The "Expert" Governor of the Bank of England and his staff knew what they were doing. That is why we came out of it relatively unscathed. I don't expect it to last.

Are you not able to realise that Mark Carney et al at the Bank of England are those in a position to take measures to influence how our economy performs. They knew what the likely impact of BREXIT would be, would have known WELL IN ADVANCE what they might need to do if the BREXIT vote happened, and did it.

Let's see where we are in six month's time. Until then, I am out of here.

You tell me what has Mark Carney done that is absolutely unique to perhaps what he has done prior to the Brexit vote, his position is to implement anything that he and others within his team deems appropriate at any particular time ??

So now you want the BoE governor to somehow take the credit for the UK's leading actual growth economy in the G10, just how bad must the other national bank leaders be within the other EU member states that are currently failing and failing badly, why aren't they able to replicate Carney ??

The fundamentals are there if you cared to look, I cannot possibly know what the future has to hold, but my god there is absolutely nothing to suggest the EU is the preferred template, its a basket case and no matter how much you try to discredit the current favourable UK data and push your already flawed predictions even further upstream it no longer offers any credibility, you're done, you are just hoping for failure, utterly depressing and utterly predictable.

 

[GT49er]

The "Expert" Governor of the Bank of England and his staff knew what they were doing. That is why we came out of it relatively unscathed. I don't expect it to last.

Are you not able to realise that Mark Carney et al at the Bank of England are those in a position to take measures to influence how our economy performs. They knew what the likely impact of BREXIT would be, would have known WELL IN ADVANCE what they might need to do if the BREXIT vote happened, and did it.

Let's see where we are in six month's time. Until then, I am out of here.

So Mark Carney et al at the Bank of England worked out what needed to be done, and did it successfully? Holy shit, we'd better all join the moaners!

 

[OzMike]

Every time that I see Theresa May, I see what looks like a man in drag, is it me ?

 

[Buzzer]

I am sorry, but I don't understand what you are getting at.

I was not getting at anyone in particular. I was merely intending to state that many political scientists and historians would hols that it is a characteristic of fascism to "dismiss" experts. It happened in germany in the 1930s.

It's not a particular characteristic of fascism to dismiss experts any more than other political creeds. They all cherry pick whatever paints them in a good light and dismiss the naysayers. Name a political system and I bet I can find an expert that those followers reject.

 

[vegster]

Oh for heaven's sake! Taxes? Driving licence? No problem with those - I've had a driving licence long before we joined the EEC, and I'm perfectly happy to pay my taxes - that's me contributing (albeit only a little) to society. The only blot on my horizon will be remoaners forever banging on, and frankly, even that won't bother me much.

Still trying to figure out what Freedom will be conferred on you when you get your wish ....looks like no change then ?

 

[cunning fergus]

My point was well made. Very few folk would have voted for Hitler if his message was 'we will exterminate the Jews'. It is impossible to predict the decisions of an iconoclast. And let's not forget, Trump has already said he supports the use of torture. But of course I am not saying Trump is the new Hitler - I would be doing a hell of a lot more than cocking an eyebrow if thought that. But I am interested in how much you can get away with if you have the chutzpah. So far Trump has been very cosnsitent: US first in everything, regardless of the means and regardless of the cost. For many this will be all they could wish for. I suspevt also that if he keeps making the right noises he will even get away with using cheap foreign labour for his own business purposes . . . which are of course no longer anything to do with him, since his family now call the shots. No, so far he is an undoubted inspiration to his sympathizers and many neutrals.

And yes, why didn't Obama just sign an executive order to shut Guantanamo? Perhaps someone can explain.

All the best.

The fact is you don't like Trump, and you don't think he should be President........that's fine by me, but you are making an false argument to suit your prejudice.

We can find plenty of examples of world leaders political or otherwise that have deceived their electorates or populations. No one would have voted for Blair if he had said he would take this country into an illegal war? So that line of argument is simply facile.

In contemporary times Trump is a political outlier, he speaks directly and candidly. This has its obvious problems particularly as President of the US, however you and others need to accept that he is in office largely because of his candour, quite simply people understand what he represents.

His comments on torture are a case in point, he thinks it work but went on to say interrogation would be a matter for his defence chief, who has (I think) already confirmed he does not support it.

Whilst Trump's comments are prima facia shocking, the hard facts are that torture and rendition practices have taken place under previous political regimes in the US and UK with leaders that would espouse views that they didn't support torture. Isn't this part of the reason why Jack Straw will shortly be up in court.

All of this hysteria about Trump what Trump says feeds into what seems to me to be a childish attitude to what we want from politicians where we rather they were dishonest, and ignore reality. Say what you want about Trump's comments, there is no doubt he WILL act in the interest of the US, and he will largely do what he says.

That Obama constantly told the US public and wider world that he would shut Guantanamo but didn't after 2 terms of office is an example of his deceit. There's little doubt that Trump had had it as a central policy it would be shutting down pdq.

 

[Two Professors]

Every time that I see Theresa May, I see what looks like a man in drag, is it me ?

Yes.Go for the player,not the ball.

 

[Two Professors]

We were led to believe that Brexit was going to be this new golden and glittering era of being in the boss-seat and picking and choosing what and who to do business with. Are Trump and that human rights horror from Turkey really the first choices and the pick of the pile?

Holding your nose and doing business seems to work very well for BMW,Mercedes,Renault,Seat,Fiat etc.

 

[cunning fergus]

Your posts always seem thoughtful and honest but it must be increasingly difficult to put a positive spin on this. We have people with green cards that were travelling overseas but cannot get back into the US and May won't condemn it. We are openly supporting a regime that has removed 120,000 from their jobs and imprisoned many of them without any due process. Never in my life have we plumbed these depths and our reputation as a bastion of values like freedom and stability is under threat. This is not a leave/remain debate anymore; it is much more fundamental than that.

There is a lot of hyperbole here isn't there?

Firstly you make it sound like this country's shit doesn't stink, after our shenanigans in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya et al who think we are a paragon of virtue that can lecture other countries about how they should run their affairs.

We should expect our leaders to express a view, no more or less than like we do with (say) China whilst in the background our filthy capitalists will be rolling in shit with their capitalists.

Both Turkey and the US are members of NATO so you should be advocating we chuck them out if we don't agree with their policies and values.

We won't though because that would be stupid........wouldn't it?

 

[cunning fergus]

Holding your nose and doing business seems to work very well for BMW,Mercedes,Renault,Seat,Fiat etc.

Indeed, after VW's actions I am surprised Greenpeace and the wider environmental constituency haven't been picketing their dealerships or similar? It's like they are being picky?

And quite why the EU isn't pushing for compensation for their customers (like there will be in the US) is equally baffling.

No doubt they will be fined sometime and the money will go somewhere.........cosmic.

 

[Soulman]

Indeed, after VW's actions I am surprised Greenpeace and the wider environmental constituency haven't been picketing their dealerships or similar? It's like they are being picky?

And quite why the EU isn't pushing for compensation for their customers (like there will be in the US) is equally baffling.

No doubt they will be fined sometime and the money will go somewhere.........cosmic.

Was it Greenpeace that pointed out who and what HSBC fund to make money, this after the Remoaners were crying over HSBC pulling out over here.
Good moaning all.

 

[Baldseagull]

1.) I wouldn't have encouraged even more migrants/refugees to come. Do you think this was a bad idea?

2.) I wouldn't lecture about the morality of dealing with dubious regimes if your preferred option would mean dealing with dubious regimes x10.

3.) I wouldn't vote to stay in a political project that sends Billions to this dubious regime no matter what. More to come.

I think you have misread the question, he asked what you would have done, not what you wouldn't.

 

[Baldseagull]

Was it Greenpeace that pointed out who and what HSBC fund to make money, this after the Remoaners were crying over HSBC pulling out over here.
Good moaning all.

If you want to make the argument that we should come down on dodgy deals, I am with you, but the main reason Banks want to remain in London is the lack of regulation compared to the EU Eurozone regulations.
If we were EU members and adopted their regulations, there would be little reason for anyone to leave London. If we are not EU members, and some activities are cut off to London based banks, we really can't afford to get tough with the banks.