[Politics] Brexit

[pastafarian]

This in my opinion is a good article. Spot on.

The angrier, snootier sections of the Remain camp have done many bad things since 23 June. Some have suggested Brexit should be overthrown. Others have issued terrible libels against Leave voters, branding them ‘low information’ and xenophobic. Witness Nick Clegg in this Guardian video published this week having a good old laugh at Sheffield people who voted for Brexit after apparently falling for the ‘emotionally pungent’ claims of Leave leaders.

But worst of all has been their sly rewriting of history. They’re engaged in a campaign to misremember the referendum, to depict it as a time of lies and idiocy, of racism unleashed. They’ve cranked up the memory holes, sharpened their redacting pens, and set about imposing a kind of collective amnesia, using the tactics of Soviet ‘forgetters’ to rustle up a narrative that says the referendum moment was a mad one. But it wasn’t.

Consider the irate response to Theresa May’s speech. Remainers’ loudest cry is that people didn’t vote to leave the single market, as May now says we will. ‘A reckless exit from the single market was not on the ballot paper,’ says Tim Farron. The public didn’t know that legging it from the single market was a possibility, observers insist.

This is untrue; political amnesia. That Leave could, and very likely would, lead to withdrawal from the single market was a central talking point of the referendum. Michael Gove, one of the most senior figures on the Leave side, said it. Out loud. In May. Voting Leave would ideally mean Britain being ‘outside the single market but [having] access to it,’ he said. Other Leavers regularly slammed the single market. David Davis laid into the ‘burdens of the single market regulations’. Vote Leave’s campaign bumf was packed with criticisms. ‘[T]he single market does more harm than good,’ it said.

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Leading Remainers also made it clear that voting Leave would likely entail pulling Britain out of the single market. David Cameron said: ‘What the British public will be voting for is to leave the EU and leave the single market.’ George Osborne echoed him: ‘We would be out of the single market.’ There you go: the two then most powerful men in Britain saying Leave would mean leaving the single market.

Were there disagreements in the Leave camp over the single market? Of course. It was a big, mixed coalition. But Leave was shot through either with doubt or outright hostility towards the single market. It is a myth — dare I say a lie — to say people didn’t know single-market membership would be thrown into question by their voting Leave. They knew this very well. We can deduce that they voted Leave either because they also wanted to leave the single market or because they believed the risk of leaving the single market was a price worth paying for getting out of the EU oligarchy. In fact, a YouGov poll this week shows that 74 percent of Leave voters want a hard Brexit. Among the population more broadly, 39 percent want a hard Brexit and 25 percent a soft Brexit. People didn’t know single-market membership was at risk? An insulting lie.

This is only one of the ways in which the referendum months are misremembered. What is fast becoming the established narrative also tells us people were hoodwinked by loudmouth politicians. Nope. Polls before the referendum showed that a paltry 8 percent of those intending to vote Leave trusted politicians on the issue of the EU, while more than 60 percent said it would be ‘better to rely on ordinary people’ when making up one’s mind. Led astray by demagogic leaders? More mythmaking.

The narrative says Brexit is Farage’s victory. It’s his Britain now, apparently. At the level of basic numbers this doesn’t add up. Ukip got 3.9 million votes at the 2015 General Election; Leave got 17.4 million votes. Those 13.5 million people who oppose the EU but have not voted for Ukip are casually airbrushed away. We’re told newspapers like the Daily Mail warped the masses’ minds with Europhobic nonsense. The Mail has a circulation of just 2.2 million. And 34 percent of its readers voted Remain. There are millions who don’t read these papers and yet who voted Leave. Perhaps — and I know this might sound shocking — they thought for themselves?

The narrative says the referendum was a swirl of racial fears. It wasn’t. Aside from one dodgy Ukip poster, swiftly taken down, the debate was principled, not prejudiced. Lord Ashcroft’s post-referendum poll found only 33 percent of Leave voters gave immigration as their ‘main reason’ for voting out. Subsequent polls show big majorities of Brits, including Leaver Brits, want EU migrants to stay here. A majority of Leave voters, just shy of 50 percent, said they voted on the principle that ‘decisions about the UK should be taken in the UK’. They acted from democratic conviction, not racial panic.

The worst part of the misremembering is its wiping of key players from the historical record. The depiction of Leave as the victory of ‘demagogues’ like Farage scrubs out Gisela Stuart, the coolest voice of Leave, who spoke to millions via TV debates. And Dreda Say Mitchell, the south London novelist who braved Question Time and live debates with Will Self to put the left-wing case for Leave. And Trade Unionists Against the EU, which met and debated with workers and convinced many the EU is a bad thing. These people, good, serious people, muddy the narrative about Brexit being a victory of hard-right blowhards and so they must be forgotten, written out, historically destroyed. The misremembering is as nasty as it is cavalier.

The rash media response to May’s speech is important for what it tells us about how the Brexit Revolt is being recorded. What was a stirring moment of deep reasoning, with vast swathes of the public turning away from politicians and the media to talk to each other, as a good demos does, is being duplicitously recorded as a hysterical episode, a lie-ridden, prejudice-packed pock on British history. This mustn’t stand. The referendum was one of the sanest political moments I can remember, in which citizens took their electoral responsibilities incredibly seriously, vast swathes of them voting from a love of democratic law-making. Don’t let bitter losers bury this brilliant historic moment with lies.

good article
There have been a few remainers on here who have said its all about the Daily Mail readers......nice to see that viewpoint made
to look incredibly stupid and uneducated in journalistic print.

Brexiteers see any questioning of article 50 or any process that, regardless of it's crucial role in Brexit, appears to slow Brexit down as high treason and the taking over of democracy by a totalitarian regime. It's democratic process. It takes a bit of time. Honestly, bunch of thin skinned, whinging crybabies. It brings to mind a toddler whose been promised a treat and pesters their Mum for it all shopping trip.
You got your way, now please let the adults sit down and try to make the best of the shambles leave voters have made of the country. It will take a bit of time.

No they dont at all.They see those using the process in order to reverse the will of the majority voting public as undemocratic
,a completely different observation.

You may have missed it but Tim Fallon and the lib dem types supporters of this are not interested in making the "best of this shambles" their version of making the best of it and have another referendum is only to weasel out of the vote to leave and remain in The EU instead.
Im in the Diane Abbott camp about this Fallon version of the way to proceed..........it would be "a blow to democracy"

Quite. And he avoided my question of whether Trump will grab May by the pussy

i dont believe he will grab Mays snatch
Now if it had been serial woman fiddler Clinton she was meeting however.......

I remember joining a huge globally activated womans march against Clintons misogyny back in the day and.......oh wait that didnt happen.

my light-hearted query about whether you're English was prompted by your habitually unusual punctuation,

important issues to focus on as ever

You're all just pawns in a massive global game of chess, you and your voice mean nothing.
You have not been charged for this information.

And yet ironically you are on a thread where your voice does mean something.
We are going from a position to being IN the EU to being OUT, because we voted and majority voting voices were heard.

You didnt vote, you were prepared to let other people decide on your behalf whether or not we stayed in or out.
We voted for you on your behalf and we are leaving, it changes many things forever, some incredibly important.
shame you didnt give a toss

 

[Wrong-Direction]

good article
There have been a few remainers on here who have said its all about the Daily Mail readers......nice to see that viewpoint made
to look incredibly stupid and uneducated in journalistic print.



No they dont at all.They see those using the process in order to reverse the will of the majority voting public as undemocratic
,a completely different observation.

You may have missed it but Tim Fallon and the lib dem types supporters of this are not interested in making the "best of this shambles"
their version of making the best of it and have another referendum is only to weasel out of the vote to leave and remain in The EU instead.
Im in the Diane Abbott camp about this Fallon version of the way to proceed..........it would be "a blow to democracy"



i dont believe he will grab Mays snatch
Now if it had been serial woman fiddler Clinton she was meeting however.......

I remember joining a huge globally activated womans march against Clintons misogyny back in the day and.......oh wait that didnt happen.



important issues to focus on as ever



And yet ironically you are on a thread where your voice does mean something.
We are going from a position to being IN the EU to being OUT, because we voted and majority voting voices were heard.

You didnt vote, you were prepared to let other people decide on your behalf whether or not we stayed in or out.
We voted for you on your behalf and we are leaving, it changes many things forever, some incredibly important.
shame you didnt give a toss

Keep telling yourself that , baaaaa[emoji231]
I have more respect for people who decided there were too many lies and bullshit to put their name to any of it.
Just because there's a cake in front of you doesn't mean you have to eat it you fat git!

Sent from my SM-A310F using Tapatalk

 

[pastafarian]

Keep telling yourself that , baaaaa[emoji231]
I have more respect for people who decided there were too many lies and bullshit to put their name to any of it.
Just because there's a cake in front of you doesn't mean you have to eat it you fat git!

Sent from my SM-A310F using Tapatalk

im not fat
im big boned

 

[beorhthelm]

Just because there's a cake in front of you doesn't mean you have to eat it you fat git!

theres no other purpose for cake than to be eaten.

 

[Wrong-Direction]

theres no other purpose for cake than to be eaten.

Not if you're already fat and miserable, could make things worse ...[emoji106]

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[pastafarian]

Keep telling yourself that , baaaaa[emoji231]

genuine question
whats it like to be a cuck and let other people make decisions for you because you dont want to get involved ?

 

[Wrong-Direction]

genuine question
whats it like to be a cuck and let other people make decisions for you because you dont want to get involved ?

You keep missing the point, the system is f***ed, why would anyone want to get involved.

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[pastafarian]

You keep missing the point, the system is f***ed, why would anyone want to get involved.

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why wouldnt you get involved?
why would you be a slave to other peoples opinions and voting habits without voicing your opinions.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

You keep missing the point, the system is f***ed, why would anyone want to get involved.

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You have nothing to moan about then, just get on with your life and get the money in.

 

[Wrong-Direction]

why wouldnt you get involved?
why would you be a slave to other peoples opinions and voting habits without voicing your opinions.

Because they make no difference ffs! Keep believing all this great stuff is going to change now, it won't,
House prices will continue to rise
Uncontrolled immigration will continue
NHS still won't get enough funding
Transport still won't get enough funding
Cost of living will continue to go up
Tax evasion will continue
Ect ect

Don't you realise it doesn't matter who or what you vote for nothing ever changes? ?

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[DavidinSouthampton]

Of course it is impossible to be precise, however if you think that that those waivering at the time of the referendum then went on to vote Leave then you my friend is the deluded one.

Europhiles and waiverers voted remain, outers wanted out, not half baked nor half in half out, a clean break, you might find it hard to envisage but we really did and thats what we will get.

When you say "we", I have had conversations with a number of people over the last 6 months who did not really know what they were voting for in June or who have come to regret it since.

I would hazard a guess that, if the referendum were to be rerun now, the result would be reversed, and fairly comfortably.

 

[The Clamp]

good article
There have been a few remainers on here who have said its all about the Daily Mail readers......nice to see that viewpoint made
to look incredibly stupid and uneducated in journalistic print.



No they dont at all.They see those using the process in order to reverse the will of the majority voting public as undemocratic
,a completely different observation.

You may have missed it but Tim Fallon and the lib dem types supporters of this are not interested in making the "best of this shambles" their version of making the best of it and have another referendum is only to weasel out of the vote to leave and remain in The EU instead.
Im in the Diane Abbott camp about this Fallon version of the way to proceed..........it would be "a blow to democracy"



i dont believe he will grab Mays snatch
Now if it had been serial woman fiddler Clinton she was meeting however.......

I remember joining a huge globally activated womans march against Clintons misogyny back in the day and.......oh wait that didnt happen.



important issues to focus on as ever



And yet ironically you are on a thread where your voice does mean something.
We are going from a position to being IN the EU to being OUT, because we voted and majority voting voices were heard.

You didnt vote, you were prepared to let other people decide on your behalf whether or not we stayed in or out.
We voted for you on your behalf and we are leaving, it changes many things forever, some incredibly important.
shame you didnt give a toss

I noticed you were setting fires all over this thread yesterday. Making quite the fool of yourself I might add. I thought you may have calmed down a bit overnight but nope, up nice and early spouting bollocks again. Well done.

 

[pastafarian]

Don't you realise it doesn't matter who or what you vote for nothing ever changes? ?

we are changing from being IN The EU to being OUT of The EU
thats a massive change

 

[Wrong-Direction]

The fact many people have admitted to voting without really knowing what they were voting for and many regretting it since cements my opinion even more.
I know the truth hurts so fully expect my backlash

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[pastafarian]

I noticed you were setting fires all over this thread yesterday. Making quite the fool of yourself I might add. I thought you may have calmed down a bit overnight but nope, up nice and early spouting bollocks again. Well done.

nothing to contribute again except the usual what time people decide to post......well done

 

[Wrong-Direction]

we are changing from being IN The EU to being OUT of The EU
thats a massive change

You are correct, the fact it won't make a blind bit of difference to the working class still stands though.

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[The Clamp]

nothing to contribute again except the usual what time people decide to post......well done[/

Is there much to contribute full stop? Certainly not to your particular brand of pompous ignorance.
The thread has largely become remainers discussing things that concern them interjected with the right wing ramblings and insults of three or four wally's like yourself who live to disagree with people. Can be fun, but largely it's cringeworthy to witness.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

You are correct, the fact it won't make a blind bit of difference to the working class still stands though.

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Life is what you make it. It doesn't matter what background you come from, we all pretty much have equal opportunities. Yes there are some that don't need to do it, born in to wealth, that's life.

 

[pastafarian]

You are correct, the fact it won't make a blind bit of difference to the working class still stands though.

Sent from my SM-A310F using Tapatalk

But all the remainers on here are adamant leaving The EU will make a difference and will be detrimental to the working class
are you saying they are wrong?

 

[The Clamp]

Life is what you make it. It doesn't matter what background you come from, we all pretty much have equal opportunities. Yes there are some that don't need to do it, born in to wealth, that's life.

You don't live in the real world.