JC Footy Genius
Bringer of TRUTH
- Jun 9, 2015
- 10,568
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[Politics] Brexit
- Thread starter KingstonSeagull
- Start date
Quick question (and I suspect the layers of squabble prevent me for finding sensible comment on this, if it exists, to assuage. . . .) is The May planning to fire the gun and then get a commons vote on The Plan, or get a vote before firing the gun? Some confusion in my household as Mrs T thinks its plan A. I would have thought that if The May has agreed a commons vote then this shurely has to be before firing the gun, or else its like deciding to jump of Beachy Head before phoning the Samaritans. Answer urgently required, before I relinquish the will to live.
JC Footy Genius
Bringer of TRUTH
- Jun 9, 2015
- 10,568
Fire gun by end of March ... two years negotiation ... final deal put to a vote in both Houses of Parliament.
ps Mrs T says 'you cockwomble, that was your brother that said that' . . . corrected. I have the short term memory of a man who has a glass of wine in his hand, and has already moved on to ther things . . . 
How can it be any clearer? Formal negotiations cannot and will not take place until Article 50 has been triggered; that will happen shortly, and then negotiations will commence. Hope this is clear enough for you.
Aha! So if the gun is fired, the vote is completely effing pointless. The EU will boot us out with aabsolutely no deals signed after 2 years, regardless of The Vote. Or do you (still) think the EU will come cap in hand, offing us baubles? If the latter . . . . you understimate how much they hate us now.
OK, we have been good at brinkmanship in the past, and I hope we can con the EU into giving us free trade and contol over immigration ('hard' brexit - feel that meaty hardness) but my guess is they will say 'second ********? Certainly. Bend over. Or faaaaak off.'
Fair enough - the good news is that you're not trying to scribble that on the cliffs at Beachy Head on your way down!
No, silly, I knew that. But JCFG and others think we will have a commons vote AFTER firing the gun and negociating. No, you can't jump off Beachy hed then call the Samaritans. WTF
We're playing the 'Answering the post before the last one' here a bit! You later asked:No, silly, I knew that. But JCFG and others think we will have a commons vote AFTER firing the gun and negociating. No, you can't jump off Beachy hed then call the Samaritans. WTF
Yes, it looks very much like that. Hopefully!
No, silly, I knew that. But JCFG and others think we will have a commons vote AFTER firing the gun and negociating. No, you can't jump off Beachy hed then call the Samaritans. WTF
Once the gun is fired it is 2 years and then we are out. The EU can decide to agree a new deal with us. They can also decide to say **** off. If the latter we have borders and no trade deals (like, er, Namibia). The UK parliament can vote to agree or disagree with The May's proposals. This means feck all to the EU. The EU decide whether to agree or not to what we offer. It is 120% their call, not ours. All we can do is close the borders and beg for a trade deal. Now please stop shitting me. If this is what you wanted you have my 100% respect. If you expected the EU to come a-begging then you have my 100% contempt.
So you hope that a commons vote is pointless? Do you not subscibe to parliamentary democracy? Since the decision will be made 100% by the EU, I assume you must be a 100% Eurochap. FFS! Do you not see what you have signed up to here? We have surrendered our future to the EU by bailing out, since the EU will dictate ALL TERMS! FFS I am losing my shit, here . . . .
pastafarian
Well-known member
i think you may have missed what was said.
The commons and lords will have a vote on the secured deal at the end of the process, that is to say the negotiated deal that our side and the EU have agreed on.
JC Footy Genius
Bringer of TRUTH
- Jun 9, 2015
- 10,568
Theoretically the vote is a necessary democratic consultation reinforcing the role of parliament/soverignity but you have a point. In reality the PM know's it will be extradorinaly hard for parliament to vote any agreement down because it would mean we still exit but on WTO rules which is an even worse option according to remainers. She also knows the public won't be impressed so I doubt Labour would have the balls to try and vote any agreement down.
I am sure they don't hate us and I have never thought they will come cap in hand but do believe they will be far less belligerent behind closed doors and a mutually beneficial deal can be done.
Here's to a succesful negotiation
But what if the commons vote 'no'?
The gun has been fired, and the 2 years are up and we are out with no 'deal' just no free trade and passports. WT ficking effing Feck? This is ballshit! Deludede madness. The gun fires and we the lose all power and influence and say. Fact. Fact.
larus
Well-known member
If we get no trade deal, then it's WTO rules. We can still trade with them. 85% of the world economy is OUTSIDE of the EU. We are the 6th/7th largest economy in the world - of course the EU will want to trade with us. They also have ADMITTED that they NEED access to the City.
Countries who have expressed interest in trade deals so far:
America,
Canada.
Australia.
China.
New Zealand.
That's off the top of my head - there may be others.
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 36,015
bottomline, this policy of clean brexit clears the deck. we know where we stand, so do EU. no more "which model" or european leader telling us we cant have this or that without the other. we said we are leaving the whole thing behind. and with that position made we and EU can agree a future together that accomodates each of our economic interests with politics and other factors pushed to the side.
larus
Well-known member
And which frigging idiots will vote no? It's unlikely to be the Brexiteers.
pastafarian
Well-known member
if the commons rejects any agreed deal yes we will simply be OUT OUT.
There will no doubt be a list of how MP`s voted.....you can direct your anger at the ones that said NO.
studio150
Well-known member
SNP
Unless of course they have won their second referendum vote and no longer part of the UK
Theoretically the vote is a necessary democratic consultation reinforcing the role of parliament/soverignity but you have a point. In reality the PM know's it will be extradorinaly hard for parliament to vote any agreement down because it would mean we still exit but on WTO rules which is an even worse option according to remainers. She also knows the public won't be impressed so I doubt Labour would have the balls to try and vote any agreement down.
I am sure they don't hate us and I have never thought they will come cap in hand but do believe they will be far less belligerent behind closed doors and a mutually beneficial deal can be done.
Here's to a succesful negotiation
Jesus H on a stick. I admire your optimism. We are leaving the EU despite eveyone there having our best interest at heart? The EU will save us? In what way is it in their interest to give us Jack Shit, given that 17 million of us voted to leave them - because they give us jack shit? Sorry, no, we are totally screwed.
I agree with PPF, we voted to leave, so let's leave now, no discussions. Passports, visas, deals on deal by deal basis. Stop the pretence. When you get a divorce you don't get the occasional hot dinner and the occasional shag. Its on yer bike, and good luck, mister.
I am amazed at the wet stupidity of some brexitters. No, Brexit means Brexit so let's get on with it, FFS!!!!