[Politics] Brexit

[Soulman]

Blimey Fred that's a long time ago

Not as long ago as the Brexit vote and that still continues.

 

[mikeyjh]

Well perhaps stop asking for confirmation on things you absolutely can never perceive as even slightly agreeable in your personal political psyche, Brexit in any of it forms will be deemed unacceptable to you, you can only ever be satisfied if what is delivered is something that you find wholly preferable, something that will never happen.

I'm really not sure what you're trying to say here - I'll say one thing though, I absolutely was a swing voter on brexit for many different reasons but came to a strong conclusion we were better off in. So, if you're saying I couldn't perceive of brexit being acceptable, you're incorrect.

 

[BigGully]

If they were in any related to our membership of the EU, or related to our withdrawal from it, we would. Losses in the finance sector in the future, related to Brexit are not unlikely, they are highly likely, it is just a guess as to how many.

The same thing was said prior to the decision whether to join the Euro or not, we didnt and the sector boomed ...............

 

[alfredmizen]

If they were in any related to our membership of the EU, or related to our withdrawal from it, we would. Losses in the finance sector in the future, related to Brexit are not unlikely, they are highly likely, it is just a guess as to how many.

What part of the financial sector is likely to suffer losses in your opinion ?

 

[alfredmizen]

I'm really not sure what you're trying to say here - I'll say one thing though, I absolutely was a swing voter on brexit for many different reasons but came to a strong conclusion we were better off in. So, if you're saying I couldn't perceive of brexit being acceptable, you're incorrect.

Fancy answering question #110 on the thread "so the fact he was carrying a gun" ?

 

[BigGully]

I'm really not sure what you're trying to say here - I'll say one thing though, I absolutely was a swing voter on brexit for many different reasons but came to a strong conclusion we were better off in. So, if you're saying I couldn't perceive of brexit being acceptable, you're incorrect.

As a swing voter, surely you normally hold views on both sides of the argument, when you finally decide on a definitive 'in or out' it seems strange to me that you jettison all your thoughts of the advantages of say Brexit and wholly embrace all of the perceived advantages (which by default is now the opposite of some of your earlier position regarding Brexit) of Remain.

I have always seen you as a committed and determined europhile, with little time for Brexit or their supporters views which doesnt obviously identify you as some swing voter with an earlier inclination towards Brexit.

Perhaps I have misinterpreted some of your previous posts .....................

 

[mikeyjh]

As a swing voter, surely you normally hold views on both sides of the argument, when you finally decide on a definitive 'in or out' it seems strange to me that you jettison all your thoughts of the advantages of say Brexit and wholly embrace all of the perceived advantages (which by default is now the opposite of some of your earlier position regarding Brexit) of Remain.

I have always seen you as a committed and determined europhile, with little time for Brexit or their supporters views which doesnt obviously identify you as some swing voter with an earlier inclination towards Brexit.

Perhaps I have misinterpreted some of your previous posts .....................

The thing is, I don't think there's 'both' sides, I think there's many sides - I'm more than happy to have a conversation about the very real and deserved issues that people have with the EU, honestly! One of the things I really can't abide is the conclusion that people reach about what the vote meant, and that everyone understood what they were voting for. Off the many things this thread tells us, it tells us that conclusion is obviously untrue. What I've always wanted is a mature (I'm definitely immature on occasion!) and sensible discussion about where we go from here. I am VERY critical of the leave campaign because clearly there was no plan and very critical of May for her incompetence.

i expect that my reasons for considering a leave vote were very different to yours but that's kind of the point isn't it, it meant very different things to different people.

I hate referendums btw.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

swingers swayers,the exit doors been unlocked and we're waiting to be let out
regards
DR

 

[Two Professors]

There is some pretty robust stuff going on on both sides of this debate but there is one thing I genuinely don't understand. What are those arguing the anti-Brexit case (and certainly the anti-hard Brexit case) described by their opponents as being moaning, whingeing, whining spoilt brats? Would the Brexiters on here have described Farage and his chums that way if the referendum result had been reversed - because as sure as heck they wouldn't have packed up. They didn't pack up in the nineties when parliamentary majorities and clear election results went against them and Farage made it clear just before the referendum that they wouldn't pack up if they lost this time.

I don't know the answer. It might simply be that some NSC Brexiters are too ready to descend to playground abuse or it might be (and I'm trying to help them here) that they are genuinely cross about something in particular. If the latter, that something might be the suggestion that many Leave voters were making a general point on June 23 rather than commenting on specific EU issues. That subject came up again on a Sky debate this week. One contributor said that the referendum showed that millions of people were fed up with being ignored and lied to and, by implication, that's why they voted as they did. A generally furious Brexit supporter in the studio didn't disagree at all with this. Most open-minded people wouldn't, but if that debate had been on North Stand Chat, I suspect that Brexit supporters would be ranting about moaning remainers whining that all Brexiters are ignorant racists. Which of course is untrue.

If the Brexiteers on here were to describe the losers of the Referendum in the terms they would really like to use about them,it would result in a ban.You lot are such a bunch ofers,you would complain to the site mods,a lot of whom are on your side of the debate for some strange reason,and there would be nobody left to counteract your gross stupidity!The patriotic Leavers on here are typically tolerant Brits,and put up with the vitriolic rubbish spewed out daily by the narrow-minded,and sometimes mentally-challenged,europhiles on site,but it does get a bit OTT sometimes.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

If the Brexiteers on here were to describe the losers of the Referendum in the terms they would really like to use about them,it would result in a ban.You lot are such a bunch ofers,you would complain to the site mods,a lot of whom are on your side of the debate for some strange reason,and there would be nobody left to counteract your gross stupidity!The patriotic Leavers on here are typically tolerant Brits,and put up with the vitriolic rubbish spewed out daily by the narrow-minded,and sometimes mentally-challenged,europhiles on site,but it does get a bit OTT sometimes.

when i first started saying my bit about immigration/ the EU on here I got all the usual shit thrown at me which i couldn't give a monkeys about as i knew they were others with a similar view who seemed to lack a bit of conviction to air theirs ,then when things headed towards the referendum more people started to air their concerns and views which shocked the REMOANERS EVEN MORE AS THEY THOUGHT THEY HAD A MONOPOLY OF VIEWS ON HERE , so, all in all a good job all round, here's to a PROFITABLE exit from the EU
regards
DR

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Yout are correct on one point, you don't know the answer, and no matter how many times the pro Brexit posters explain the reasons...you are still trying to put out other reasons that YOU think people voted out.

On every level, that's a cop out answer. I posed a question and provided a couple of possible answers. You won't comment on them, or offer any half-sensible alternatives; all you can do is screech inanities. Just for the record though, are you really saying it is just ME, or just pro-remain supporters, who observe that what happened on June 23 was part of a wider populist reaction by people tired of the way their worlds are being run? Because that is what you have just said.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

If the Brexiteers on here were to describe the losers of the Referendum in the terms they would really like to use about them,it would result in a ban.You lot are such a bunch ofers,you would complain to the site mods,a lot of whom are on your side of the debate for some strange reason,and there would be nobody left to counteract your gross stupidity!The patriotic Leavers on here are typically tolerant Brits,and put up with the vitriolic rubbish spewed out daily by the narrow-minded,and sometimes mentally-challenged,europhiles on site,but it does get a bit OTT sometimes.

As an Albion supporter you can't possibly be the swivel-eyed drip you pretend to be.

 

[clarkey]

If any of you were saying that the main reason you voted out was because you would just feel happier being out, I could not argue with you much, only to suggest you may be a masochist. What makes you happy is your choice. I can understand the dissatisfaction with the EU and some of what it brings, I am too, most of the benefits are less easily seen, though they do exist and are real.
It is the attempts at logical argument of how we will be better off out both as a country and as working people that I personally find myself rankling against the most.

I found this an interesting read yesterday. http://stumblingandmumbling.typepad...ling/2017/01/brexit-as-identity-politics.html

Essentially describes Remainers as 'Consequentialists' - perceiving of Brexit in terms of its perceived effects on trade, productivity, growth etc

It then describes Leavers as seeing Brexit as an 'Intrinsic Good' - 'something desirable in itself in which consequences are of secondary importance'

I don't think its a completely watertight theory, but do think it helps explain why the debate is so intractable and, to a certain extent, why it's very hard to even have a cogent, logical debate on the issue.

 

[Soulman]

Spot on.
"Remainers have aggressive contempt of Brexit voters"

 

[portslade seagull]

Spot on.
"Remainers have aggressive contempt of Brexit voters"

Some on here definately have. They will deny it though

 

[JC Footy Genius]

There is some pretty robust stuff going on on both sides of this debate but there is one thing I genuinely don't understand. What are those arguing the anti-Brexit case (and certainly the anti-hard Brexit case) described by their opponents as being moaning, whingeing, whining spoilt brats? Would the Brexiters on here have described Farage and his chums that way if the referendum result had been reversed - because as sure as heck they wouldn't have packed up. They didn't pack up in the nineties when parliamentary majorities and clear election results went against them and Farage made it clear just before the referendum that they wouldn't pack up if they lost this time.

I don't know the answer. It might simply be that some NSC Brexiters are too ready to descend to playground abuse or it might be (and I'm trying to help them here) that they are genuinely cross about something in particular. If the latter, that something might be the suggestion that many Leave voters were making a general point on June 23 rather than commenting on specific EU issues. That subject came up again on a Sky debate this week. One contributor said that the referendum showed that millions of people were fed up with being ignored and lied to and, by implication, that's why they voted as they did. A generally furious Brexit supporter in the studio didn't disagree at all with this. Most open-minded people wouldn't, but if that debate had been on North Stand Chat, I suspect that Brexit supporters would be ranting about moaning remainers whining that all Brexiters are ignorant racists. Which of course is untrue.

The problem with your scenario is it doesn't compare accurately to the situation we find ourselves in. I doubt many people have an issue with others continuing to hold opposing views it's more their refusal to even give Brexit a chance before righting it off. Plus constantly emphasising/ highlighting only negative news. Plus continually misrepresenting other people's arguments the usual strawman tactics. Worst of all arguing to reverse Brexit even before it has happened or diluting it to a point where we are still more in than out which is inherently undemocratic and extraordinarily dangerous.

Now you might say Farage and chums would have behaved similarly (nice bedfellows for you I'm sure!) but the significant difference is we would still be in the EU and they wouldn't be trying to thwart the democratic will of the majority before it has a chance to be enacted.

I'm guessing some NSC Brexiteers descend to playground abuse out of sheer exasperation although I believe a number of supposed Remain stalwarts only frequent this thread to provoke that type of reaction.

Btw if Remain had won I am certain this thread would have died a death within a month of the result and any occasional Brexiteer bitching would be binned off to the other stuff.

 

[portslade seagull]

The problem with your scenario is it doesn't compare accurately to the situation we find ourselves in. I doubt many people have an issue with others continuing to hold opposing views it's more their refusal to even give Brexit a chance before righting it off. Plus constantly emphasising/ highlighting only negative news. Plus continually misrepresenting other people's arguments the usual strawman tactics. Worst of all arguing to reverse Brexit even before it has happened or diluting it to a point where we are still more in than out which is inherently undemocratic and extraordinarily dangerous.

Now you might say Farage and chums would have behaved similarly (nice bedfellows for you I'm sure!) but the significant difference is we would still be in the EU and they wouldn't be trying to thwart the democratic will of the majority before it has a chance to be enacted.

I'm guessing some NSC Brexiteers descend to playground abuse out of sheer exasperation although I believe a number of supposed Remain stalwarts only frequent this thread to provoke that type of reaction.

Btw if Remain had won I am certain this thread would have died a death within a month of the result and any occasional Brexiteer bitching would be binned off to the other stuff.

Agree with that. Brexit defeat would've seen this thread moved. It would have been non existant now. The Leavers would have accepted the vote / will of the people

 

[Soulman]

On every level, that's a cop out answer. I posed a question and provided a couple of possible answers. You won't comment on them, or offer any half-sensible alternatives; all you can do is screech inanities. Just for the record though, are you really saying it is just ME, or just pro-remain supporters, who observe that what happened on June 23 was part of a wider populist reaction by people tired of the way their worlds are being run? Because that is what you have just said.

"Cop out answer"....really?
Let's have a look at what i was replying to.
1) " Would the Brexiters on here have described Farage and his chums that way if the referendum result had been reversed "
As i said "you don't know the answer"
2) "I don't know the answer. It might simply be that some NSC Brexiters are too ready to descend to playground abuse"
As i stated "you don't know the answer", and i should take a look at what side are really ready to "descend to playground abuse"
3) "One contributor said that the referendum showed that millions of people were fed up with being ignored and lied to and, by implication, that's why they voted as they did"
ONE contributor, ONE, i think 17m voted out, as i stated "no matter how many times the pro Brexit posters explain the reasons...you are still trying to put out other reasons that YOU think people voted out."
4) "A generally furious Brexit supporter in the studio didn't disagree at all with this."
SUPPORTER, not even a few.
5) "Most open-minded people wouldn't, but if that debate had been on North Stand Chat, I suspect "
Again just your opinion, or as i stated ""you don't know the answer"

So where was the cop out.

 

[Soulman]

As an Albion supporter you can't possibly be the swivel-eyed drip you pretend to be.

Hmmm, and your quote was......... " It might simply be that some NSC Brexiters are too ready to descend to playground abuse".

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Agree with that. Brexit defeat would've seen this thread moved. It would have been non existant now. The Leavers would have accepted the vote / will of the people

Like you I know I would have accepted it, after a bit of venting! To be fair I think most Remainers also accept the vote it's only the more extreme elements who think it's ok to try and thwart it.