[Politics] Brexit

[GoldWithFalmer]

You don't make the poor richer by making the whole country poorer, where is the world has that happened?

The poor have always and always will be suppressed in order for the better off to attain that St Lucia vacation..

Staying in the EU might ultimately make the nation poorer when the critical mass of the working population is reached,with enough cheap foreign Labour the taxes possibly won't be high enough..

 

[Soulman]

.
It is strange that many of the people who suffered and are suffering from the cuts in services and the pay freezes, made in order to get our country back in the black, were willing to take us deeper into the red, into recession and an unknown period of economic gloominess and extra borrowing, to get our country back.

When has this happened then?

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

When has this happened then?

It ended with the last coalition Government taking power

 

[Baldseagull]

A National debt that is not helped by uncontrolled immigration. This affects all walks of life schools, hospitals, NHS, housing and so on

Economically, immigration has been beneficial, they do add to the numbers using services, have an affect on the supply and demand of housing, etc. but the tax take on migrant workers out strips the additional costs of services. There are issues caused by immigration, but the National debt is not one.

 

[Baldseagull]

When has this happened then?

When you voted.

 

[Soulman]

When you voted.

So it has not happened yet though, although you think it will.

 

[cunning fergus]

Incredible statement is you consider where the countries finances are heading under Brexit.

If the Italian referendum exit polls are to be believed then Renzi has gone and the Italian banking system is heading down the shitter.

If, all things being equal, this is the case, then in light of the perilous state of our finances I presume you will not be expecting the U.K. Taxpayer to contribute to any bailout if requested?

 

[Baldseagull]

So it has not happened yet though, although you think it will.

I don't want to put upon you what you thought at the time of voting, but most leave voters were saying they thought it would be tough for Britain for a while, but that we would be better off in the long run.
I was pointing out the similarity between that position and the Tory plan for austerity, which would be tough for a while, but would leave us better off in the long run.

It is strange to me that many of those that said that austerity measures were bad, because of the hardship endured, are fine about leaving the EU, whatever the hardship we will have to endure.

 

[Kuipers Supporters Club]

Italy next

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Excellent! We have some common ground, but can you tell me why this belief, that the wealthiest should contribute the most to central funds, for the benefit of the less well off, breaks down when it comes to Britain, one of the wealthiest nations, making contributions to the EU so that it may fund improvements in less well off nations?
Is it not equally selfish and vulgar for the UK to pursue a course where we seek to have as many benefits as we can get from the EU, whilst refusing EU citizens opportunity here, seek to pay as little as possible to EU central funds and want to not be bound by the rules they have for preventing nations trying to give themselves commercial advantage?

For a number of reasons:
Because the EU project is driven by the interests of multinational companies and in particular the single market reduces the power of the workforce in favour of capital. This is why banks and big business drove the campaigns in 1975 and
2016,
Because our society and sense of community is diluted by lack of democratic control. It is now unfashionable to even believe in
society...it appears Mrs Thatcher was right as people now prefer individual 'rights' over their obligations to each other,
Because the economic structure of the EU embeds inequality as capital is drawn to wealthier areas and free movement drains poorer areas of their best talent. A lot has been made of the skills of migrant Labour in for example the NHS. It
would be more ethical for those people to enrich their own communities.
I don't want to seek anything from the EU other than reciprocal good political and
commercial relations.
As to the EU ensuring nations do not achieve commercial advantage, that I would suggest, could not be further from the truth. Quite apart from the cosy tax deals, the whole system is skewed in favour of currently wealthy nations such as Germany. The tool
is the Euro which enables permanent advantage to Germany and permanent disadvantage to
Southern Europe. New members must join the Euro and I think it naive to believe that staying outside whilst remaining an EU member will be economically possible as it is completely counter to the needs of the EU of further integration.
In short, it's great that we have some common philosophical ground but I believe in society and community and I don't think that is achieved by subsuming into a juggernaut one size fits all project run by the multinationals. I find the abuse of fellow citizens of our country quite sad and it rather confirms my view of the implications of the breakdown of community.

 

[cunning fergus]

Economically, immigration has been beneficial, they do add to the numbers using services, have an affect on the supply and demand of housing, etc. but the tax take on migrant workers out strips the additional costs of services. There are issues caused by immigration, but the National debt is not one.

So there it is, the economic answer to Brexit is to accept even more migrants, if only we can invite in as many as possible then we can watch the tax take swell so that we can fix all the economic ills that currently beset the economy.

Someone needs to tell the Greeks how easy it is to fix their economy...........

 

[cunning fergus]

Italy next

Euro heading south against all currencies, Italian bond yields heading north.

For once this is a case of where the remainers and brexiteers will be happy.

Brexiters as this is another nail in the coffin of the EU in its current guise.

Remainers as this means they won't have to moan about how a weak £ has put up the price of their caviar.

Merry Christmas everyone!

 

[Baldseagull]

So there it is, the economic answer to Brexit is to accept even more migrants, if only we can invite in as many as possible then we can watch the tax take swell so that we can fix all the economic ills that currently beset the economy.

Someone needs to tell the Greeks how easy it is to fix their economy...........

Wait and see, if there are is enough work available, immigration will remain high.

 

[GT49er]

I don't want to put upon you what you thought at the time of voting, but most leave voters were saying they thought it would be tough for Britain for a while, but that we would be better off in the long run.
I was pointing out the similarity between that position and the Tory plan for austerity, which would be tough for a while, but would leave us better off in the long run.

It is strange to me that many of those that said that austerity measures were bad, because of the hardship endured, are fine about leaving the EU, whatever the hardship we will have to endure.

Oh dear, there's so much of real politic that you don't understand.
Temporary economic problems when we tell the EU to do one - yes, we leavers all recognised that will probably be the case. Didn't some prat called Cameroon or something similar put this in his Project Fear manifesto?
The Tory austerity, on the other hand, was **** the poor, but make sure that the bankers, the driving force behind our virtual economy (we don't have a real one any more) are OK, and there's always some good jobs for us when our political career goes tits up. Expect some nice cushy money spinning sinecures to pop up for Cameramoan and his cronies soon......................

 

[cunning fergus]

Wait and see, if there are is enough work available, immigration will remain high.

What do you mean?

I thought the country was heading into the economic abyss..........all the jobs are heading abroad aren't they?

 

[GT49er]

So there it is, the economic answer to Brexit is to accept even more migrants, if only we can invite in as many as possible then we can watch the tax take swell so that we can fix all the economic ills that currently beset the economy.

Someone needs to tell the Greeks how easy it is to fix their economy...........:

Excellent! Perhaps if all those remoaners who think the UK world will end with Brexit should bu88er off to Greece. Our problems solved. Greece's problems solved.


What's not to like? Win, win......innit.....

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

If exit polls are to be believed, Renzi seems to have lost the Italian referendum by about 10 points. Shame it wasn't about Itexit.

 

[nicko31]

If exit polls are to be believed, Renzi seems to have lost the Italian referendum by about 10 points. Shame it wasn't about Itexit.

Seems like business as usual in Italy, its been in political chaos there for decades, nothing new.

If Italy bank do go down its bad news for us Brexit or no Brexit, the world still doesn't end at Dover much to the disappointment of the Little Englanders

 

[beorhthelm]

Economically, immigration has been beneficial, they do add to the numbers using services, have an affect on the supply and demand of housing, etc. but the tax take on migrant workers out strips the additional costs of services.

i wish you'd stop parroting out this mantra with clearly no understanding of the details. migrant workers that are young and earning above average or high incomes are indeed a net contributor to taxes. however migrant workers that arent earning so much, picking up unskilled or low paid skilled work are not contributing to taxes and may even be in receipt of tax credits. in a country with insufficient housing all migrants are increasing demand where there is no way for them to increase supply (unlike other virtuous cycles in the economy from immigration), and likewise they can only increase demand on public services until such time as central funded supply is increased (if ever in some areas). to put in harsher reality, French working in the City are a net contributor to economy, while Romanians working in Lincolnshire fields are not.

 

[Soulman]

If exit polls are to be believed, Renzi seems to have lost the Italian referendum by about 10 points. Shame it wasn't about Itexit.

If Mr Renzi resigns, it could plunge Italy into political turmoil and cause economic instability in the struggling eurozone country.
The result is another blow to the European Union, which is struggling to overcome a number of crises and was keen for Mr Renzi to continue his reform drive.
Opposition parties denounced the proposed changes as dangerous for democracy because they would have gotten rid of important checks and balances on executive power.
Spearheaded by the populist Five Star Movement, the biggest rival to Mr Renzi's Democratic party, the "No" campaign took advantage of the PM's declining popularity, a struggling economy and problems caused by tens of thousands of migrants arriving from Africa.