Boro made operating loss of £36 million in being promoted last season

[Triggaaar]

Football League say they've complied.

What would they know?

 

[8th battalion East Lancs]

Burnley have been promoted twice with one hand tied behind their back because they chose - rather naively - to comply with FFP (although in 2013/14 we had no choice due to being skint - hence the Charlie Austin sale the day before the start of the new season).

There's nothing naive in trying to run a football club as a self reliant business. Although the money Burnley can generate (not Sky Lizard money, our own) and the wages players want these days, shows that we had no option but to comply with FFP.

We're only a relegation, a manager change and an average season in the Championship away from losing £6/7 million a season again.

Brighton will find out when they go up, how easy it is to get shut of £100 million plus.

 

[Mr Putdown]

We're only a relegation, a manager change and an average season in the Championship away from losing £6/7 million a season again.

Remind me how much the club is currently losing each season?

 

[8th battalion East Lancs]

Remind me how much the club is currently losing each season?

Well we aren't currently losing anything and haven't for 3 years now.

You'll no doubt have to ask a Brighton fan about their finances though.

 

[Nixonator]

Well we aren't currently losing anything and haven't for 3 years now.

You'll no doubt have to ask a Brighton fan about their finances though.

We're currently losing around 47M a season by most accounts, mainly down to the transfer spending sprees CH is partial to and TB just doesn't know when to say no. Investment in structure for the future has been little to none.

This year we will fail FFP by approximately 68M if we don't get promoted, which means we will need to sell our entire squad minus Richie Towell and Casper Ankergren and move back into the withdean after selling our stadium, which could see us plummet down the leagues.

If we do go up, it will be due to us BUYING promotion by a sugar daddy's transfer warchests which has seen MEGABUCKS signings such as Beram Kayal for 700k, Anthony Knockaert for 2M and our current record signing defender Shane Duffy for 4M inclusive of addons.

 

[Se20]

Remind me how much the club is currently losing each season?

If Brighton get promotion, the losses will be £30 mill for the season ( according to NSC's financial expert El Pres )
Frightening for such a well run club.

 

[sparkie]

If Brighton get promotion, the losses will be £30 mill for the season ( according to NSC's financial expert El Pres )
Frightening for such a well run club.

The "30 million" includes money already spent and gone on the stadium build, and elite performance center - not money that has to found on an ongoing basis.

Does anyone know how much the cheque is that Tony has to write each season to balance the books - minus any tax reduction he can get for his other businesses by writing such a cheque ? That is the important figure.

 

[sparkie]

Point is this is classic TB. Can you imagine him saying:

"Yes, we plan to push the boat out. Money is no object. We will pay top dollar". He will do whatever makes sense, and he won't be announcing his plans. Fact.

This. No way would he telegraph his willingness to spend to all and sundry.

 

[Stat Brother]

Would I be right in thinking the next accounts issued (this season) will be the first under new 'rolling 3 year plan FFP'?

So in theory clubs can 'go for it' in year 1.

Then either:-

- Gain promotion with a seemingly FFP busting loss

or

- Miss promotion and balance the books in either year 2 or 3 with a fire sale.

 

[sparkie]

Would I be right in thinking the next accounts issued (this season) will be the first under new 'rolling 3 year plan FFP'?

So in theory clubs can 'go for it' in year 1.

Then either:-

- Gain promotion with a seemingly FFP busting loss

or

- Miss promotion and balance the books in either year 2 or 3 with a fire sale.

Yes. £15 million for Dunk would be 'the fire sale'.

 

[El Presidente]

The "30 million" includes money already spent and gone on the stadium build, and elite performance center - not money that has to found on an ongoing basis.

Does anyone know how much the cheque is that Tony has to write each season to balance the books - minus any tax reduction he can get for his other businesses by writing such a cheque ? That is the important figure.

Over the last two seasons to June 2016 he lent the club £51 million.

There are no tax reliefs.

 

[El Presidente]

Would I be right in thinking the next accounts issued (this season) will be the first under new 'rolling 3 year plan FFP'?

So in theory clubs can 'go for it' in year 1.

Then either:-

- Gain promotion with a seemingly FFP busting loss

or

- Miss promotion and balance the books in either year 2 or 3 with a fire sale.

It's not quite as simple as that. Clubs have to submit budgets to the EFL on a regular basis, and if they show that the FFP limits are likely to be breached then there can be sanctions...including points deductions.

 

[sparkie]

It's not quite as simple as that. Clubs have to submit budgets to the EFL on a regular basis, and if they show that the FFP limits are likely to be breached then there can be sanctions...including points deductions.

That sounds like a can of worms. Surely a note with the projections saying that player x would be sold in the summer would be enough to delay any points deduction. If not surely there would be a legal challenge ? You can't issue a sanction based on ifs and buts.

Best just ditch FFP.

 

[El Presidente]

That sounds like a can of worms. Surely a note with the projections saying that player x would be sold in the summer would be enough to delay any points deduction. If not surely there would be a legal challenge ?

Best just ditch FFP.

It will have lawyers reaching for ther Range Rover brochures should the EFL, which to date has shown the backbone of a jellyfish in relation to Leicester and QPR, try to enforce a points deduction.

Clubs have to submit their budgets by 1 March 2017, and this allows the EFL's 'independent committee' to

(a) Fine clubs
(b) Points deduction
(c) Drop clubs from an automatic promotion position into the playoffs (or even out of the playoffs)
(d) Drop clubs out of the playoffs

 

[sparkie]

It will have lawyers reaching for ther Range Rover brochures should the EFL, which to date has shown the backbone of a jellyfish in relation to Leicester and QPR, try to enforce a points deduction.

Clubs have to submit their budgets by 1 March 2017, and this allows the EFL's 'independent committee' to

(a) Fine clubs
(b) Points deduction
(c) Drop clubs from an automatic promotion position into the playoffs (or even out of the playoffs)
(d) Drop clubs out of the playoffs

So the independent committee is already in session. Let's hope they don't have to deal with any long emails...

 

[Weststander]

That sounds like a can of worms. Surely a note with the projections saying that player x would be sold in the summer would be enough to delay any points deduction. If not surely there would be a legal challenge ? You can't issue a sanction based on ifs and buts.

Best just ditch FFP.

That would be the green light for billionaire owners of clubs such as Wednesday, together with a no holds barred approach from relegated PL clubs already with the advantage of parachute monies, to massively outspend TB on transfer fees and players wages, to gain promotion.

Following the QPR, Bournemouth and Leicester cheating method, but made legal.

FFP gives far more clubs a chance of promotion. Look at Burnley.

As well as making insolvencies in the Football League less likely, where creditors are the losers (Palace, Leicester and Southampton several times each, Portsmouth, etc.).

 

[El Presidente]

That would be the green light for billionaire owners of clubs such as Wednesday, together with a no holds barred approach from relegated PL clubs already with the advantage of parachute monies, to massively outspend TB on transfer fees and players wages, to gain promotion.

Following the QPR, Bournemouth and Leicester cheating method, but made legal.

FFP gives far more clubs a chance of promotion. Look at Burnley.

As well as making insolvencies in the Football League less likely, where creditors are the losers (Palace, Leicester and Southampton several times each, Portsmouth, etc.).

Out of interest, who do you think has outspent TB?

FFP works if owners want it to work. If they don't, they employ consultants, accountants and lawyers to find a way around the rules, and then use those same people to filibuster, delay, dilute and oppose and sanctions. The owners and directors tests are difficult to enforce, as has been seen at clubs such as Leeds.

Under the latest incarnation of FFP a club can lose £26 million in season (such as the Albion did last year) and still sneak under the 'sustainable' loss target of £13m once adjustments are taken into account. Spread over three seasons for all the clubs in the Championship would give a total loss of £1.872 billion, which is eye watering.

On the plus side the wage controls in League 1 and 2 have resulted in a reduction of administrations.

 

[Nixonator]

If Brighton get promotion, the losses will be £30 mill for the season ( according to NSC's financial expert El Pres )
Frightening for such a well run club.

Case in point.

The 26M figure (to be fair you creeped it up a mere 4M which is a modest increase compared to social media) are not all losses in the context of a playing/operating budget, otherwise we would fail FFP (13M).

Much of it is TB's willingness to invest structurally in the future (training ground,academy), and depreciation on the stadium.. but then you already knew that.

 

[Westdene Wonder]

Hope Tony gets his money back if we exist for a season in the Premiership then we can look forward to Championship in which a,re quite comfortable and receive
regular visits from Sky.

 

[Se20]

Case in point.

The 26M figure (to be fair you creeped it up a mere 4M which is a modest increase compared to social media) are not all losses in the context of a playing/operating budget, otherwise we would fail FFP (13M).

Much of it is TB's willingness to invest structurally in the future (training ground,academy), and depreciation on the stadium.. but then you already knew that.

That's why I said IF you get promotion.
The figure would include promotion bonuses for the players.
Spending most of your income on wages is just crazy, but if you've got Blooms wealth, what's £250 mill if you can get to the PL ?