[Help] Born Agains Advice

[portlock seagull]

In the least offensive manner, how do you ask a family member to reign in the religion? It makes me feel awkward and even angry (my Dad hasn’t long to live, and is suffering enormously now after years of steady decline with dementia) when they constantly refer to Jesus, God, Blessings, prayers-for, salvation etc. And even insist they met with when they were themselves in hospital, something that leaves you grasping for anything to change the subject I can tell you! Nor is situation helped by their almost delusional take on a hopeless scenario for a very long time. My emotions are at times stretched as sure you can appreciate. Am I being too touchy, and perhaps misplacing my anger at someone who is only guilty of not reading the room especially well?

As always NSC, your sage advice please. Because I feel I’m going to go nuclear and say just STFU or something similar otherwise!

 

[Flagship]

Surely if your dad doesn't have long to go and he has dementia, you should cut him some slack and play along with it. Family members of mine who have been in that situation have all sorts of delusional conversations and it seemingly pointless in trying to persuade them that what they're thinking isn't true. He believes that he is going to meet his maker soon and wants to prepare himself in whatever way he can.

 

[hart's shirt]

Firstly, I'm sorry that your father is suffering with not long to live and that you're in this situation.

Both of my parents are 87 - my mother has Stage 4 Parkinson's and is sometimes delusional caused by a heady cocktail of underlying anxiety and years of medication. My father struggles daily with mental health issues including depression and a history of joint suicide pact ideas and is supported by Social Services. Their quality of life is much improved now from what it was 2-3 years ago at the start of the pandemic - much of this has to do with people in the community dropping in to visit, have a cup of tea, chat and do life together. (Having lived with them for over 2 years since late 2020, I've seen it first hand.) There's nothing like love borne out in intentional friendship and support - it's helped so much with my father's carer burnout. That said, every situation of aging parents who are entering the last few months of their lives is hard for everyone concerned, not least for their friends and immediate family members. So you, your father and your family have my very best wishes at this time.

Regarding your question, let me try and be as helpful and practical as I can, albeit from a Christian perspective for full transparency. It is possible to say and do the wrong thing with the best of intentions. Sharing faith with people who are open to listen is one thing, vomiting it over people is quite another. It's both deeply inappropriate and insensitive on a human level, especially in the circumstances you mentioned. It's also flawed theologically. The only saving agent here when anyone comes to belief is the Holy Spirit who brings revelation into human hearts. Whilst people can witness, express faith and encourage others, they themselves don't convert. The only agent of salvation is the Holy Spirit. Any idea that people can themselves 'force the issue' might well be built up on human arrogance and ego - a shaky foundation at best. And that's without even considering the doctrine of election!

I don't think you're being too touchy here mate. The fact that you yourself flagged this up as a possibility probably means that you aren't! I hope the family member concerned is there to help and console practically, not just spout off unwelcome religiosities. The Christian gospel is offensive enough without us making it any more offensive. And those 'born again' shouldn't make others wish that they hadn't been born in the first place!

As it's Valentine's Day, it's probably apt to remember that of all the qualities of love that Paul lists in 1 Corinthians 13, patience is the first, even before kindness. It seems that you've been very patient here! (Much better than the nuclear option, although a quiet word might not go amiss.) So here's hoping and praying that there's patience and and kindness in abundance surrounding your father and family at this time.

"Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things." (1 Corinthians 13:4-7, ESV)

 

[Algernon]

I don't believe in any of that old nonsense but what harm could it be doing in this instance, though if your dad started showing signs of being fed up of hearing it I'd have to have a word with the other family member.

If it's just that you yourself don't want to hear the waffle then maybe have a little word with them and explain that they should turn it down/off when you're around.

Genuinely I'm very sorry to hear your Father's ill.

 

[Chicken Run]

In the least offensive manner, how do you ask a family member to reign in the religion? It makes me feel awkward and even angry (my Dad hasn’t long to live, and is suffering enormously now after years of steady decline with dementia) when they constantly refer to Jesus, God, Blessings, prayers-for, salvation etc. And even insist they met with when they were themselves in hospital, something that leaves you grasping for anything to change the subject I can tell you! Nor is situation helped by their almost delusional take on a hopeless scenario for a very long time. My emotions are at times stretched as sure you can appreciate. Am I being too touchy, and perhaps misplacing my anger at someone who is only guilty of not reading the room especially well?

As always NSC, your sage advice please. Because I feel I’m going to go nuclear and say just STFU or something similar otherwise!

My thoughts are with you and your family at this time, as for the religious prospective, is that your lack of of interest shining through or are they offending the majority?

If it’s just you getting wound up I’m afraid the problem is you

 

[Bakero]

Surely if your dad doesn't have long to go and he has dementia, you should cut him some slack and play along with it. Family members of mine who have been in that situation have all sorts of delusional conversations and it seemingly pointless in trying to persuade them that what they're thinking isn't true. He believes that he is going to meet his maker soon and wants to prepare himself in whatever way he can.

I'm pretty sure he's saying another family member is preaching, not his dad.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

I wouldn’t hesitate, gently, to say that it isn’t helpful.

A good few years ago the Wife of the minister at our Church had terminal cancer. She was a colleague and a very good friend of Mrs DiS. She was only in her 40s and would be leaving 2 school age boys behind. Another minister locally went to visit her in the final week and said how lucky she was, how happy she must be that she was going to meet her maker.

The vast majority of people who became aware of it were horrified, it upset the patient, who was perfectly compos mentis, enormously, and I have never been able to see this particular person in the same light again.

so no, you’re not being over-sensitive.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Firstly, I'm sorry that your father is suffering with not long to live and that you're in this situation.

Both of my parents are 87 - my mother has Stage 4 Parkinson's and is sometimes delusional caused by a heady cocktail of underlying anxiety and years of medication. My father struggles daily with mental health issues including depression and a history of joint suicide pact ideas and is supported by Social Services. Their quality of life is much improved now from what it was 2-3 years ago at the start of the pandemic - much of this has to do with people in the community dropping in to visit, have a cup of tea, chat and do life together. (Having lived with them for over 2 years since late 2020, I've seen it first hand.) There's nothing like love borne out in intentional friendship and support - it's helped so much with my father's carer burnout. That said, every situation of aging parents who are entering the last few months of their lives is hard for everyone concerned, not least for their friends and immediate family members. So you, your father and your family have my very best wishes at this time.

Regarding your question, let me try and be as helpful and practical as I can, albeit from a Christian perspective for full transparency. It is possible to say and do the wrong thing with the best of intentions. Sharing faith with people who are open to listen is one thing, vomiting it over people is quite another. It's both deeply inappropriate and insensitive on a human level, especially in the circumstances you mentioned. It's also flawed theologically. The only saving agent here when anyone comes to belief is the Holy Spirit who brings revelation into human hearts. Whilst people can witness, express faith and encourage others, they themselves don't convert. The only agent of salvation is the Holy Spirit. Any idea that people can themselves 'force the issue' might well be built up on human arrogance and ego - a shaky foundation at best. And that's without even considering the doctrine of election!

I don't think you're being too touchy here mate. The fact that you yourself flagged this up as a possibility probably means that you aren't! I hope the family member concerned is there to help and console practically, not just spout off unwelcome religiosities. The Christian gospel is offensive enough without us making it any more offensive. And those 'born again' shouldn't make others wish that they hadn't been born in the first place!

As it's Valentine's Day, it's probably apt to remember that of all the qualities of love that Paul lists in 1 Corinthians 13, patience is the first, even before kindness. It seems that you've been very patient here! (Much better than the nuclear option, although a quiet word might not go amiss.) So here's hoping and praying that there's patience and and kindness in abundance surrounding your father and family at this time.

"Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things." (1 Corinthians 13:4-7, ESV)

I agree wholeheartedly and you’ve expressed my thoughts perfectly.

I wonder if the other relative isn’t coping very well, and using their beliefs to comfort themselves more than anything.
I’m sorry @portlock seagull your Dad is going through this. It is a very painful time, and different people react differently to horrible situations.

 

[Perfidious Albion]

I understand it that your father is near the end of life and another family member is forcing religion on everyone….
I agree with what has been said earlier that in this terrible time we have to endure our relatives. I very much doubt that your father is aware or troubled by it . There is nothing to say that you cannot politely tell them that you do not share their faith and would they please give it a rest in your company…
My feelings are with you at a very bad time . I am glad that both my parents went fairly quickly but I have seen the grief when the old mother in law was in that state . All the best

NB .. I was shocked at the comments of that Minister in David In Southampton’s post above !

 

[AmexRuislip]

I really feel for you and what you are going through.
I think a polite request to the religious family member, would be to ask them to keep their thoughts to themselves, as it upsets you

 

[chickens]

Personally, if this other family member is close, I would suggest grabbing a quick coffee, and at the coffee shop just saying that while you respect their faith, it’s a really difficult time, and you’d appreciate them dialling it down a notch.

I’d just be honest that you are struggling, and that while you appreciate their practical help, your father is not in a position to take in new theological positions and ideas.

I like to think that most would accept this as a reasonable position.

 

[Horses Arse]

In the least offensive manner, how do you ask a family member to reign in the religion? It makes me feel awkward and even angry (my Dad hasn’t long to live, and is suffering enormously now after years of steady decline with dementia) when they constantly refer to Jesus, God, Blessings, prayers-for, salvation etc. And even insist they met with when they were themselves in hospital, something that leaves you grasping for anything to change the subject I can tell you! Nor is situation helped by their almost delusional take on a hopeless scenario for a very long time. My emotions are at times stretched as sure you can appreciate. Am I being too touchy, and perhaps misplacing my anger at someone who is only guilty of not reading the room especially well?

As always NSC, your sage advice please. Because I feel I’m going to go nuclear and say just STFU or something similar otherwise!

Sounds like an awful situation to deal with. What was you're Dad's views on religion? If he was anti then I'd definately say something, remind folk it's not about them and their beliefs. It is about what he believed that is important and that deserves respect. If he tolerated religion then just keep your council I guess.

Didn't have that problem personally. My dad did not respect religion and asked the nurses to cut out the religuos nonsense, the familly all of the same view too. Would not like to be in the position you find yourself in.

Hope things work through as best they can.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

My thoughts are with you and your family at this time, as for the religious prospective, is that your lack of of interest shining through or are they offending the majority?

If it’s just you getting wound up I’m afraid the problem is you

Think you're wrong. If the person is increasing the angst in a horrible situation they need to be told in the nicest way to drop it. It's times such as this where people with a strong belief do tend to seize the moment to express themselves. They often don't appreciate that many people just don't want it.

 

[Cheeky Monkey]

You have my sympathies, dealing with vaguely a similar situation with my dad who has advanced dementia, keeps on about fearing his post-life future and heaven/god and saying “I haven’t done anything wrong have I?” The irony being he was a serial philanderer (I have a half-brother I’ve never met), domestic abuser to my mum, abusive to me and my sisters growing up which has resulted in lifelong psychological damage to us all and we have to now sit there reassuring him he did nothing wrong to calm him down.

In lighter news, my ex’s dad was a vicar all his life, served in many different parishes. He had a brief hospital stay for a minor operation while still a vicar, and when the hospital chaplain, doing his rounds, made to stop by his bed, he flicked a hand for him to go away, telling him “I don’t believe in any of that nonsense”. He was completely lucid, just saw being a vicar as a job, nothing more.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Need to have a friendly word before it gets built up so much that you snap at some point with them unaware it had been bothering you. If you can catch it early and in a nice constructive way, hopefully they'll respond by being more considerate around you. You want the nice chat before you get to the 'will you just shut the f*** up' stage.

 

[sydney]

he's your dad , i'm afraid in that situation i very much doubt i could control my emotions , the religious tit would be told in no uncertain terms........unless your dad is getting some comfort from it in which case you may just need to deal with it for his sake ....good luck x

 

[sydney]

You have my sympathies, dealing with vaguely a similar situation with my dad who has advanced dementia, keeps on about fearing his post-life future and heaven/god and saying “I haven’t done anything wrong have I?” The irony being he was a serial philanderer (I have a half-brother I’ve never met), domestic abuser to my mum, abusive to me and my sisters growing up which has resulted in lifelong psychological damage to us all and we have to now sit there reassuring him he did nothing wrong to calm him down.

In lighter news, my ex’s dad was a vicar all his life, served in many different parishes. He had a brief hospital stay for a minor operation while still a vicar, and when the hospital chaplain, doing his rounds, made to stop by his bed, he flicked a hand for him to go away, telling him “I don’t believe in any of that nonsense”. He was completely lucid, just saw being a vicar as a job, nothing more.

great second paragraph ....first paragraph sad. all the best.

 

[LamieRobertson]

In the least offensive manner, how do you ask a family member to reign in the religion? It makes me feel awkward and even angry (my Dad hasn’t long to live, and is suffering enormously now after years of steady decline with dementia) when they constantly refer to Jesus, God, Blessings, prayers-for, salvation etc. And even insist they met with when they were themselves in hospital, something that leaves you grasping for anything to change the subject I can tell you! Nor is situation helped by their almost delusional take on a hopeless scenario for a very long time. My emotions are at times stretched as sure you can appreciate. Am I being too touchy, and perhaps misplacing my anger at someone who is only guilty of not reading the room especially well?

As always NSC, your sage advice please. Because I feel I’m going to go nuclear and say just STFU or something similar otherwise!

The very reason you need to have a chat in a responsible manner now not later.

 

[Coldeanseagull]

In this difficult time for you, tell them, in no uncertain terms, what you think. In this day and age you'll find it's no good pussy footing about these nut jobs who are clinging to a pathetic belief to justify their lack of understanding of science

 

[portlock seagull]

Thank you for all the kind messages and food for thought.

Decided to hold my tongue, deal with a different time. I’ll probably feel even worse if have a family fallout due to lack of sleep, emotions running high etc. Just focus on my dad instead and stick relative on ‘ignore’ in NSC parlance!

But thanks once again good people, tis appreciate