Boris Johnson 8pm televised address - official match thread

[seagullwedgee]

Tier 4 is a geographical area. Shielding as such doesn't apply as it did in the March lockdown. In the last lockdown people like myself who were asked to shield first time round were merely asked to remain extra careful

I should clarify, I was responding to a question from another poster who asked whether people with underlying health conditions would be placed in the 4th priority group for the COVID vaccination, and my answer was NO, only people who are required to shield due to being extremely clinically vulnerable will be included in that group.

I realise now I caused confusion by using the word ‘tier’. I should have used the term ‘priority group’. Apologies.

 

[Weststander]

with the amazing level of analysis it's all too predictable. johnson's denial, bluster and indecision muddles the message. it's a real problem

I think the failures, said with hindsight, are:
1. The tiered system. It allows piss takers from a higher tier area to break the law/rules and go long distances to shop, booze, day trip or holiday elsewhere. It might just be the hardcore Covidiots and Covid-deniers, but that’s an awful lot of people. Spreading the virus.
2. The 4 governments, BJ and others are too worried about civil liberties. Visitors from places such as South Korea are aghast that people are still walking round shops without masks on. We should imho have turned that into hard and fast law, unless you have a formal letter from eg your GP on you, with shops and the police properly enforcing it.

 

[darkwolf666]

That's pretty much me too.

I haven't voted Tory for a long time. In fact, I voted Labour more recently than I voted Tory, but I try to play the ball not the man, and judge each situation independently and on its own merit.

And as I've already written today, I absolutely despair that politicians changing their mind is mocked as a sign of weakness. Surely, of all human traits, essentially saying "I was wrong, I can see that now, and we need to do something different" is a strength. I'd rather than than someone who will plough ahead, regardless of anything else, in order to try and save face.

Having the grace to change your mind is an asset in all walks of life, intransigence is to be abhorred...

However, only changing your mind when EVERYONE has told you you are wrong is not a sign of leadership and most definitely not a sign of strength.

 

[crodonilson]

Eat out to Help Out, whoever devised that idea should be made to work in a COVID ward until this Pandemic is over...

It was a disgrace and did a lot to start fanning the fires in late summer we are suffering from now. Restaurants and hospitality should have been closed, if they had we would have had a far lower base when the inevitable surge in cases happened as Autumn began.

 

[rogersix]

Starmer - we should lock down
Unions - schools should not reopen

Johnson does neither and is reviled (and possibly kills thousands and renders schools un-openable due to staff sickness levels)

Starmer - we should lock down
Unions - schools should not reopen

Johnson does both and is roundly condemned by left wing commentators anyway.

I know what I'd prefer.

yeah, i see what you're saying; being right, last, is better than being wrong

my point is, with so many expert advisers, he should be ahead of the game and lead us

 

[V_001]

Academy Lockdown Statement

The academy will carry on as normal until told otherwise. The U18s and all other training sessions are to carry on as per schedule until told otherwise.

Elite sport is exempt from lockdown measures however, we will await further guidance from the Premier League as to which age groups this includes.

 

[Is it PotG?]

It was a disgrace and did a lot to start fanning the fires in late summer we are suffering from now. Restaurants and hospitality should have been closed, if they had we would have had a far lower base when the inevitable surge in cases happened as Autumn began.

I'm sure your pals Pippa and Cedric or whatever they're called took full advantage.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

So why did we not turn the ship around when it became obvious the promised Brexit was undeliverable ? Instead we had to plough on towards the rocks and anyone who yelled " lookout..!!!!!.. Rocks " was seen as betraying the rest of the crew ?

This game seems to be make up a false fact about something else, then some made up consequences and finally loosely link it to the Government handling of Covid. I won’t be discussing this conspiracy theory in detail as it is probably better addressed by the creatures who frequent the Bear Pit.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Quite. I’ve never really understood that mind set either. “Oh, you’re changing your mind”.

As if it’s a good thing to steadfastly hold the same opinion forever, ignoring any and all new information proudly.

The issue is more to do with frequency. By all means listen and change your mind. But if any leader, any boss, any manager etc is routinely making the wrong call, changing their mind and dithering, you cannot help but question their ability and suitability for the role.

 

[darkwolf666]

When asked by Sam Coates from Sky (yes that muppet who spoke about the EPL being stopped earlier) at one of the press briefings a few days ago about what he would say to the parents of primary school children he said: “Schools are safe. The school itself is safe. It’s when children mix in their bubbles is what causes infections to rise. Schools are safe”.

And that was that. You’ve said children should go to school and that schools are safe because when children mix in their bubbles it pushes infections up. And no one batted an eyelid. Sam Coates said nothing. I couldn’t believe it. This is what we have as a PM now and the quality of our media. Everyone knows there was a risk but that answer was illogical. But why would that shagging, father denying ******* give a shit. One of his advisers must have had a word as he had the temerity to explain tonight how schools cause infections. Cheers Johnson, the worst Prime Minister at the worst time. And no it’s not all his fault and it’s a tough gig but what a useless bag of shit.

Similar to the point when I started shouting at the TV when he was on the Andrew Marr show!

I can’t make up my mind whether Johnson is incredibly thick, Jim Hacker style, or he just thinks the English public are incredibly thick?

 

[Stat Brother]

Not on the Marr show he didn't:

“There are obviously a range of tougher measures that that we would have to consider… I’m not going to speculate now about what they would be, but I’m sure that all our viewers and our listeners will understand what the sort of things… clearly school closures, which we had to do in March is one of those things.”​

Don't get me wrong - I think it was wrong they opened today. A more pragmatic approach would have been to announce an initial two-week closure, to allow things to be assessed, but let's not just make stuff up, such as he said "schools will stay open", as he didn't (again, not on the Marr show anyway).

I didn't quote Boris but the intent was there.

Everything, every single piece of evidence he has had since he couldn't "save Christmas" has pointed towards not reopening schools.

Yes he's changed his mind.
You are correct 'u-turns' ought to be praised and not used as a stick to beat him with.

But he hasn't reviewed new the evidence.
He hasn't changed his mind.
He's just faffed and faffed to the point of blustering yesterday only to today say something close to the opposite.


As always this isn't hindsight.

The kids were never going back to school - why the hell did many go back for 1 day?
It's insane.

 

[rogersix]

Similar to the point when I started shouting at the TV when he was on the Andrew Marr show!

I can’t make up my mind whether Johnson is incredibly thick, Jim Hacker style, or he just thinks the English public are incredibly thick?

both

 

[darkwolf666]

The issue is more to do with frequency. By all means listen and change your mind. But if any leader, any boss, any manager etc is routinely making the wrong call, changing their mind and dithering, you cannot help but question their ability and suitability for the role.

And those that advise them...

 

[Steve in Japan]

It is.

Thanks for the detailed explanation of why you hold that view.

The other option is that Lockdown V3 works - hopefully - and therefore from around Saturday, infection rates fall off a cliff. Around 2 weeks after that we see a peak in Hospital admissions.

By my workings that gets us to about 22nd January. Give it another 10 days to make sure, then see if some schools can reopen.

Or would you rather lockdown until May? June? 2022??

 

[beorhthelm]

I can’t make up my mind whether Johnson is incredibly thick, Jim Hacker style, or he just thinks the English public are incredibly thick?

he's not thick, i dont think he thinks the public are either. he's a chancer and an optimist. he doesnt want to do things so doesnt do them. until he has to. its certainly no leadership, neither is it malicious.

end of the day, we've now closed the schools that so many wanted, further lockdown that so many wanted. some will say the decision was late, the net effect is the same, schools closed from Christmas until Easter as many wanted.

 

[Billy the Fish]

The issue is more to do with frequency. By all means listen and change your mind. But if any leader, any boss, any manager etc is routinely making the wrong call, changing their mind and dithering, you cannot help but question their ability and suitability for the role.

Agree, Potter's dodgy team selections and lack of early substitutions are a big problem!

 

[Mike Small]

Similar to the point when I started shouting at the TV when he was on the Andrew Marr show!

I can’t make up my mind whether Johnson is incredibly thick, Jim Hacker style, or he just thinks the English public are incredibly thick?

He doesn’t do detail. Doesn’t prepare. Doesn’t care. People vote for him. He knows that. Even Trump said he could shoot someone and people would vote for him. Lesser extent here but same premise.

 

[darkwolf666]

Not on the Marr show he didn't:

“There are obviously a range of tougher measures that that we would have to consider… I’m not going to speculate now about what they would be, but I’m sure that all our viewers and our listeners will understand what the sort of things… clearly school closures, which we had to do in March is one of those things.”​

Don't get me wrong - I think it was wrong they opened today. A more pragmatic approach would have been to announce an initial two-week closure, to allow things to be assessed, but let's not just make stuff up, such as he said "schools will stay open", as he didn't (again, not on the Marr show anyway).

Equally he didn’t say schools WOULD close either, he just fudged and dithered around the question - to be fair to him, in true politician style.

He should have had the balls to tell it like it is and not leave 100s of headteachers and thousands of staff in limbo...

 

[Randy McNob]

When the same old bitter names turn up with eternal Tory hating predictability, it’s worth looking at other places to benchmark. Some ridiculously one-eyed NSC posts in March and April on how well and presidential Macron and Sturgeon had managed the pandemic. Then that went rather quiet as it turned out only Germany, Denmark, Finland and Norway could be envied. Like the UK, the rest of Europe was AND STILL IS a CV19 disaster zone.

Plenty of major gaff by Johnson in my opinion. But unlike you, I can give a balanced argument.

Your NSC posts aside from football are relentlessly anti Tory, you never listen to an opposing view on any matter, The Bear Pit was made for exactly that limited mindset.

only someone who looks to point the finger elsewhere rather than holding the government to account when they have clearly failed has a political axe to grind. Its government bashing not Tory and fully warranted they have failed miserably no matter how you try to spin it differently

 

[Bozza]

I didn't quote Boris but the intent was there.

Everything, every single piece of evidence he has had since he couldn't "save Christmas" has pointed towards not reopening schools.

Yes he's changed his mind.
You are correct 'u-turns' ought to be praised and not used as a stick to beat him with.

But he hasn't reviewed new the evidence.
He hasn't changed his mind.
He's just faffed and faffed to the point of blustering yesterday only to today say something close to the opposite.


As always this isn't hindsight.

The kids were never going back to school - why the hell did many go back for 1 day?
It's insane.

My guesses, are for two reasons:

1. Face-to-face education has been prioritised from all political angles. It was always going to be the last thing to go.
2. But primarily, because millions of parents across the country sent their kids in.

I wouldn't have opened schools today, but that doesn't mean I can't have some understanding as to why attempts, however desperate-looking, were made.