Boris Johnson 8pm televised address - official match thread

[zefarelly]

All that said, at the risk of going down a rabbit hole, I do wonder what it was that Boris had on his mind until midnight on 31 December.

how to make hm and his mates an extra few Mil, and waiting for his blue chew to kick in to get his end away. Probably.

 

[Stat Brother]

That's my frustration with it all. There is no sense that Johnson has any kind of idea what his priorities are. "Keep schools open" was a mantra last week yet in the summer the pubs were open and the schools weren't. Then it was all about "Helping out to eat out" until the industry was shut down. The priority in May seemed to be keeping Cummings in a job rather than infections down yet Cummings was dispensable the moment he upset Princess numb nuts. His opinion seems to be the last person he spoke to - or slept with - which blows with the wind and gives a poor clarity of message which confuses everyone. Last week, it should have been clear that the schools should have been shut (that Sir Kier also remained silent on as well) yet they pressed on anyway. A week preparing for online learning as opposed to mass testing in schools would have helped parents and teachers alike but the ploughing on regardless until there is no other option on the table has become a familiar feature in the past few weeks and months. That's not hindsight, it was what SAGE were advising. He can't make difficult calls.

For balance, financial help from the Government, the number of vaccines deployed already and the testing programme from scratch have all been success stories. The Government have made a good fist of parts of the pandemic which no matter how well they do they will not get praise from some quarters. Hancock, whilst being a bit weird, has done a pretty good job but some of them have failed the task miserably. Williamson, Johnson and Patel being top of the list. Where we'd be with Corbyn, Abbott and McDonnell is anyones guess.On paper though, they appear to be ones that would have done an almighty balls up. Ultimately, we need better politicians of all colours.

As an aside, I seem to remember you had long Covid. If you don't mind me asking, are you still suffering?

Much better than some of the hamfisted attempts I've written to try and say pretty much the same.

Thanks for that!

 

[Iggle Piggle]

No one gets angry about 22bn spaffed on non exsistent track and trace - world beating and ready by June 2020, but thank god we didn't vote for the other lot who would wreck the economy - hmm...

The 22bn also includes testing which is very much in operation and has been set up from scratch and is anything but non existent. There has without doubt been cronyism in the awarding on untendered contract but lets not pretend that it is 22 billion quid on a smartphone app.

I don't know why i'm engaging in debate. You'd be arguing what a great job the government were doing if it was the other way round and exactly the same set of circumstances.

 

[Bish Bosh]

I live in France and agree with your post. This pandemic is unprecedented and although ( in hindsight) many mistakes have been made I do believe Governments are doing their very best.

In France up until yesterday they had vaccinated a total of 138 people with the new vaccine. I'm still waiting for the local pharmacy to re-stock its supply of the anti flu virus because France ran out of supplies in November.

Its unfortunate, but I understand everyone, and every country is trying.....( Donald Trump aside of course ). Whoever is in power at the moment holds a poisoned chalice.

I do wish people and posters on here were more reasonable with their criticisms. Slagging off all and sundry surely helps no-one ?

Agree with this but charlatan Johnson is taking it to extremes. Go to school advice in the morning and then it's close them by evening. I mean c'mon

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Absolutely our experience too. CAMHS was somewhere between useless and actually causing further damage.

If we had waited for CAMHS I honestly believe we wouldn't still have our son alive. I ended up taking out a loan for private treatment, some 5 years later he still needs support but by now my company health insurance looks after him.

He's 19 now but the only contact I had from the authorities during his schooling was for them to take me to court for his non-attendance. I actually got the case dismissed and received a written apology from the judge! His school still didn't accept the reason for his absence.

The system is useless

 

[Nobby]

No one gets angry about 22bn spaffed on non exsistent track and trace - world beating and ready by June 2020, but thank god we didn't vote for the other lot who would wreck the economy - hmm...

It’s a bit like the Chrissy Hughton debate

Hughton would definitely have taken us down

Corbyn would definitely have been a disaster

All we definitely know, is that the alternative hasn’t been much better

 

[Notters]

Looks like life as normal in Central Hove this morning. Can't actually think what these new measures will change in the local area than what we had previously in Tier 4 (which wasn't working). Yes I know schools are now shut, but they've been closed the past 2 or 3 weeks for Christmas holidays and cases were still rising. I'm struggling to see how these new measures will make any difference in the spread around here, unless I'm missing something.

You've only been in Tier 4 for just over a week, how do you know it wasn't working?

It looks like it's been making a difference in London and Kent where it's been in place for longer:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/05/coronavirus-uk-covid-cases-and-deaths-today

Closure of places like hairdressers where there is a lot of close contact should also make a difference.

That said these things follow a natural curve in any case.

 

[elwheelio]

I always found it odd that tier 4 allowed garden centres to stay open. Surely a bit of a magnet for some of the most at-risk groups in terms of age.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

There's a big, big difference between supporting Boris per se and supporting the measures brought in last night. I fully support what he has done last night and, guess what, so do Starmer (and Krankie) because they were also suggesting / doing it.

If anything I agree that it was all a day late and should have been done before ANY kids went back but people stating there were four millions kids in yesterday without backing it up with any evidence whatsoever seem to be the ones using hyperbole, rather than government supporters.

All that said, at the risk of going down a rabbit hole, I do wonder what it was that Boris had on his mind until midnight on 31 December.

Indeed. There are probably dozens of things that Boris does that I support. But he seems to do bad things almost as regularly as our cat chucks up his dinner (the greedy bolter). The difference is that my cat is a cat, and my expectations, there, are low. Boris seems to want to be PM, so lying and making poor decisions with an unprecedented regularity are not acceptable.

Also, when Covid first came round, despite all my fears and expectations I cut Boris some slack. I said so on NSC. I defended his initial delayed decision to act. Fool me once, shame on Boris; fool me twice, shame on me.

So I find it baffling that people, some of whom I know and respect, are still cutting Boris slack, hence my 'pig in a blue rosette comments'. People may think they are being fair and pragmatic by supporting the PM, patriotic, even, but I think they have simply been seduced by the smooth-talking fraud just like the long line of posh totty who seem to fall for him. And this is why one or two people (who aren't really 'pig in a blue rosette' tory Daleks by any stretch) have got a bit shirty when I have pointed this out.

For the final time, Corbyn was a joke of a leader, and Boris is a different kind of joke of a leader. The fundamental difference between the two is that one has charm and an absence of conscience, making him capable of attracting support and getting elected. Fool me once....fool me twice....we are up to 10-15 times now in a single year . . . . I shall never undersetimate the siren voice of political seduction again.

Sorry.....what? Let's not listen to those who continue to talk this great country down. We. Willhave a vaccine and. It's being rolled out as. I speak with literally millions of doses.

 

[Ⓩ-Ⓐ-Ⓜ-Ⓞ-Ⓡ-Ⓐ]

You've only been in Tier 4 for just over a week, how do you know it wasn't working?

It looks like it's been making a difference in London and Kent where it's been in place for longer:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/05/coronavirus-uk-covid-cases-and-deaths-today

Closure of places like hairdressers where there is a lot of close contact should also make a difference.

That said these things follow a natural curve in any case.

Cases are still on the rise in all London Boroughs bar Wandsworth, Bexley and Havering. Regarding Brighton, we've had 10 days of Tier 4 and the average incubation period is 5-6 days so you'd expect case numbers to be dropping by now if indeed it was working well enough.

 

[zefarelly]

I always found it odd that tier 4 allowed garden centres to stay open. Surely a bit of a magnet for some of the most at-risk groups in terms of age.

can gnomes get covid ?

To be fair, most garden centres are out doors and large. Supermarkets are the worst places.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Indeed. There are probably dozens of things that Boris does that I support. But he seems to do bad things almost as regularly as our cat chucks up his dinner (the greedy bolter). The difference is that my cat is a cat, and my expectations, there, are low. Boris seems to want to be PM, so lying and making poor decisions with an unprecedented regularity are not acceptable.

Also, when Covid first came round, despite all my fears and expectations I cut Boris some slack. I said so on NSC. I defended his initial delayed decision to act. Fool me once, shame on Boris; fool me twice, shame on me.

So I find it baffling that people, some of whom I know and respect, are still cutting Boris slack, hence my 'pig in a blue rosette comments'. People may think they are being fair and pragmatic by supporting the PM, patriotic, even, but I think they have simply been seduced by the smooth-talking fraud just like the long line of posh totty who seem to fall for him. And this is why one or two people (who aren't really 'pig in a blue rosette' tory Daleks by any stretch) have got a bit shirty when I have pointed this out.

For the final time, Corbyn was a joke of a leader, and Boris is a different kind of joke of a leader. The fundamental difference between the two is that one has charm and an absence of conscience, making him capable of attracting support and getting elected. Fool me once....fool me twice....we are up to 10-15 times now in a single year . . . . I shall never undersetimate the siren voice of political seduction again.

Sorry.....what? Let's not listen to those who continue to talk this great country down. We. Willhave a vaccine and. It's being rolled out as. I speak with literally millions of doses.

Going slightly further off topic, but there was a programme on 6 Music on New Year's Day which was a discussion with Brian Eno (who I would not expect is a Covid expert) and Brian Cox (ok, physics, but definitely a scientist). Cox made the point that countries which had done "best" had female leadership and countries that have done "worst" had very macho men - Boris, orangebungle****, India and Brazil.

I don't know if this is true or backed up by data but it would suggest that the scientific community think that Churchillian responses are fine for actual war but fairly useless against a virus.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I love you mate, you know that, but if any of the above applies to me you're ridiculously wrong.

As I say, I genuinely try to play the ball not the man on all occasions. If I can be accused of anything that I would readily accept is that I cut everyone too much slack, that I'm a naive optimist who gives the benefit of the doubt to everyone too often and that empathy is often my go-to.

But frankly, I'd rather approach things in this manner than be a snide cynic to everything that comes my way. Life's too short to be like that IMO.

Mate, I know that you are scrupulously fair, rational and measured. I do however fear that Boris is being cut far too much slack, still, when all the evidence suggests he cannot be trusted with our futures and, in many cases, lives. I know perfecly well you are not a card-carrying tory Dalek. I do fear, however, that you, along with many others (including me during the first weeks of the first lockdown) have been seduced. I have listened to Boris countless times this year and it is extraordinarily easy to laugh at his jokes and nod in agreement. It takes quite an effort to go back to what he said a few weeks previously and look at what happened. It is even harder to look over the whole piece. I work with someone like Boris. He is a liar and a cheat and yet every time I see him he makes me feel like a king, and I want to do things for him. It is a gift. Boris has the same gift. It makes people behave like 'pig in a blue rosette' tory Daleks even when they are far from that. This is my long winded way of saying sorry, I was rude. You are no more a knee jery tory Dalek than I am a knee jerk Labour cyberman. My endless repeated attacks on Corbyn will have proven that. And I don't think that means I'm more virtuous than thou - it simply reflects that the current leader of the party of your preference has manyfold more charm than the former leader of the party of my preference. I hope that's clear.

Keep up the excellent work, and I wish you and your tribe all the best for the coming year.

 

[Bozza]

So I find it baffling that people, some of whom I know and respect, are still cutting Boris slack, hence my 'pig in a blue rosette comments'. People may think they are being fair and pragmatic by supporting the PM, patriotic, even, but I think they have simply been seduced by the smooth-talking fraud just like the long line of posh totty who seem to fall for him. And this is why one or two people (who aren't really 'pig in a blue rosette' tory Daleks by any stretch) have got a bit shirty when I have pointed this out.

Again, I don't know how much of this is aimed at me, but I'm certainly not supporting the PM, and I'm not entirely sure I'm even cutting him some slack either.

Yet it seems you may be taking from what I've written that I'm a blue-rosette wearing perma-Tory voter. And whilst I have voted Tory in the past, I couldn't tell you when the last time was. But I could tell you when I voted Labour and Liberal Democrat, since both happened more recently.

I guess much of my angst is probably broader than the polarising character of Boris Johnson, and also the issue of Covid-19. I despair of those who are so politically-entrenched that it almost seems that they are sitting around just waiting for any indication of bad stuff happening on "the other side" so they can gleefully lay the boot in. They are incapable of the kind of balanced and coherent analysis displayed by [MENTION=17261]Iggle Piggle[/MENTION] above, as they are completely blind to the good/positive as they are in a never-ending desperate quest to find the bad/negative.

It's like those weird types that we've all come across who seem to get some sort of bizarre delight in the Albion losing, as it gives them an opportunity to moan. They seem to derive great joy from each defeat - we see it on here, generally about 10 seconds after the final whistle - they probably have their moan already composed and ready to post.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Going slightly further off topic, but there was a programme on 6 Music on New Year's Day which was a discussion with Brian Eno (who I would not expect is a Covid expert) and Brian Cox (ok, physics, but definitely a scientist). Cox made the point that countries which had done "best" had female leadership and countries that have done "worst" had very macho men - Boris, orangebungle****, India and Brazil.

I don't know if this is true or backed up by data but it would suggest that the scientific community think that Churchillian responses are fine for actual war but fairly useless against a virus.

Very good! While my biases may urge me to leap on this and wax lyrical about the value of the feminization of the workplace (something I consider to be very advantageous) I suspect this association is just chance, and that wider cultural and meterological issues are the main players here. Most of Africa is run by gun-toting shagmonsters, yet covid is low there. Nice idea, though

 

[Notters]

Cases are still on the rise in all London Boroughs bar Wandsworth, Bexley and Havering. Regarding Brighton, we've had 10 days of Tier 4 and the average incubation period is 5-6 days so you'd expect case numbers to be dropping by now if indeed it was working well enough.

You're looking at something like 5-6 days for people to pass things on, 5-6 days to show symptoms, a couple of days to get a test, another 4-5 days to get a result and another few days for the results to be reported.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Harry - you're making the very wrong - and if I may say so, slightly foolish assumption, that everybody who doesn't support the 'Boris is a clown, he's done everything wrong, everybody in the rest of the world has done better, and frankly my mother's friend's goldfish could have done better' line* pushed by many on here is a card carrying Boris supporting Tory who will always vote for a pig with a rosette. That simply isn't the case; many of us can see things that (often with hindsight) could have been done better (or differently anyway) but that nonetheless the government has done no worse (or better) than many others - there is no road-map on this, so the best advice in the world (which the government has broadly followed) is partly based on guesswork anyway.
The 'Pig with a rosette' quip can be equally applied to more than one colour, you know (and this from one who thinks Starmer got it exactly right tonight, and hopes to be able to vote for him in the not too distant future).

* I realise nobody's actually said those exact words, but you know as well as I do the 'line' I'm talking about!

No, you are absolutely correct.

I was provoked by a single line in a post that appeared to label critics of Boris as knee-jerk red rosette wearers, which is equally false. I hope I have corrected my error by way of explanation and apology in a couple of earlier posts this morning.

 

[Bozza]

Mate, I know that you are scrupulously fair, rational and measured. I do however fear that Boris is being cut far too much slack, still, when all the evidence suggests he cannot be trusted with our futures and, in many cases, lives. I know perfecly well you are not a card-carrying tory Dalek. I do fear, however, that you, along with many others (including me during the first weeks of the first lockdown) have been seduced. I have listened to Boris countless times this year and it is extraordinarily easy to laugh at his jokes and nod in agreement. It takes quite an effort to go back to what he said a few weeks previously and look at what happened. It is even harder to look over the whole piece. I work with someone like Boris. He is a liar and a cheat and yet every time I see him he makes me feel like a king, and I want to do things for him. It is a gift. Boris has the same gift. It makes people behave like 'pig in a blue rosette' tory Daleks even when they are far from that. This is my long winded way of saying sorry, I was rude. You are no more a knee jery tory Dalek than I am a knee jerk Labour cyberman. My endless repeated attacks on Corbyn will have proven that. And I don't think that means I'm more virtuous than thou - it simply reflects that the current leader of the party of your preference has manyfold more charm than the former leader of the party of my preference. I hope that's clear.

Keep up the excellent work, and I wish you and your tribe all the best for the coming year.

That's utter shit chap, again. Apologies for having to resort to those words, but maybe you'll finally take notice before I back out of these discussions.

I have never liked Boris Johnson. I was unhappy that he was finally able to position himself as leader of the Tories, since it moved him closer to the office he now holds. I didn't vote for him. I couldn't vote for him. I will never vote for him. That, as a country, we were left with a Johnson v Corbyn decision, was simply appalling.

I agree we locked down too late first time round. Government dithered until the country started locking itself down and they had little choice but to rubber-stamp that.

I agree that schools should not have opened yesterday, saying as much here numerous times, but I also understand the desire to try to keep schools open, since closed schools is incredibly damaging for many, many children less fortunate than those of most who use NSC.

My one hope when Covid-19 entered our world was that Johnson, being a lazy sod afraid of big decisions, would essentially step aside and allow those who know what they are doing to do what needed to be done. He would be the frontman - rolled out in front of the country every now and again to let us know what was going on. It would play to his strengths and would also mean his weaknesses wouldn't be allowed to damage our response.

I'll leave everyone else to it. Have a nice day.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

But Harry, who is this ‘NSC pig in a blue rosette is great by me contingent ?’ I don’t see even one post that could be construed that way. I do see quite a bit of vitriolic abuse from anti Boris posters and responses from others pointing out the difficulties of managing through this crisis but accepting mistakes have been made. Nobody knows how well the opposition would have managed this crisis so to claim it would have been better or worse as fact is simply playing politics with the virus.

It was a reaction to an impression given that critics of Boris are all red rosette wearing lefties. Explantion elsewhere.

An over-reaction, most likely. Demonstrating my own lack of leadership qualities and tendency to needlessly alienate people. I am the exact opposite of Brois

 

[rippleman]

By how much could the spread of the virus have been mitigated if Boris had used the introduction of the new lockdown to withdraw his shopping list of exemptions from wearing face coverings in shops and on public transport?

I have noticed an increase in selfish individuals refusing to wear masks in shops. When you can buy an "I'm exempt" lanyard on Amazon for £1.99 (+P&P) it's not really a surprise. NOBODY should be allowed in shops if a face covering is not being worn.

It only takes a shopworker who is asymptomatic, and has invested their £1.99 (+p&p), to potentially infect dozens, if not hundreds, of people a day.

This is not the time for selfishness; wear a face covering or stay indoors.