[News] Boris and coal mining.

[dsr-burnley]

I don’t think for one minute Margaret Thatcher was thinking of green issues when she destroyed the UK’s mining industry. Boris clearly not understanding or showing any empathy for whole communities IS the problem. The man is an insensitive clown, simple!

I have a suspicion that it was a joke. Obviously there is a certain type of person who goes round looking for jokes so they can take offence; this is a good chance.

If the coal mining life is so wonderful, why hasn't Nicola Sturgeon reintroduced it? There must be loads of coal underground in Scotland. Let those who want the life to return, apply for jobs digging it up.

 

[The Clamp]

I have a suspicion that it was a joke. Obviously there is a certain type of person who goes round looking for jokes so they can take offence; this is a good chance.

If the coal mining life is so wonderful, why hasn't Nicola Sturgeon reintroduced it? There must be loads of coal underground in Scotland. Let those who want the life to return, apply for jobs digging it up.

It was a joke. It wasn’t a funny joke because Thatcher put so many families through unnecessary and deliberately cruel hardship. That’s what people have an issue with.

 

[clapham_gull]

I have a suspicion that it was a joke. Obviously there is a certain type of person who goes round looking for jokes so they can take offence;

It was a public statement, don't be an idiot. Unless you are happy with a clown as Prime Minister, Bernie Clifton as Chancellor and Mike Reid looking after the NHS.

 

[FIVESTEPS]

I don’t think for one minute Margaret Thatcher was thinking of green issues when she destroyed the UK’s mining industry. Boris clearly not understanding or showing any empathy for whole communities IS the problem. The man is an insensitive clown, simple!

If Thatcher wasn't thinking of green issues perhaps Labour where as they closed down far more pits than Maggie.

 

[Fat Boy Fat]

I have a suspicion that it was a joke. Obviously there is a certain type of person who goes round looking for jokes so they can take offence; this is a good chance.

If the coal mining life is so wonderful, why hasn't Nicola Sturgeon reintroduced it? There must be loads of coal underground in Scotland. Let those who want the life to return, apply for jobs digging it up.

See post #22 for an eloquent answer to your question.

 

[studio150]

Deliberate by Johnson, purely to move the news coverage away from the Cambo Oil field to the west of Scotland ahead of the COP26 climate conference.

 

[clapham_gull]

This isn't a debate about what Labour or the Conservatives did in the 1970s and 80s and more about a potty mouth PM who'd be better of as a drunk Head of State wheeled out for ceremonial purposes.

Utterly pissing off his own MPs who fought hard to gain seat in traditional working class areas.

His popularity amongst members has dropped off a cliff.

 

[dsr-burnley]

It was a joke. It wasn’t a funny joke because Thatcher put so many families through unnecessary and deliberately cruel hardship. That’s what people have an issue with.

The mines had to be closed. Surely no-one believes the miners should still be down there digging up coal that nobody wants.

It was not a good position for the country to be in, to be at the mercy of the miners. I do not recognise the right of coal miners to dictate to me whether I should work or whether I should not. And imagine if they still had the power of cutting off the country's power, when business depends on electricity so much more than it used to.

Industries have disappeared before. I could have been spending my days in a noisy mill weaving cotton, rather than in an office working a computer, if it hadn't been for the demise of the cotton industry (rather earlier than the demise of the coal industry). I'm not sorry.

 

[clapham_gull]

The mines had to be closed. Surely no-one believes the miners should still be down there digging up coal that nobody wants.

It was not a good position for the country to be in, to be at the mercy of the miners. I do not recognise the right of coal miners to dictate to me whether I should work or whether I should not. And imagine if they still had the power of cutting off the country's power, when business depends on electricity so much more than it used to.

Industries have disappeared before. I could have been spending my days in a noisy mill weaving cotton, rather than in an office working a computer, if it hadn't been for the demise of the cotton industry (rather earlier than the demise of the coal industry). I'm not sorry.

That isn't the debate though is it ?

If the regime at the time felt the workers votes were worth it, they authorities would have acted differently. Unfortunately with Thatcher you were either "one of us" (the famous phrase) or not.

It completely defined the times. I'd never thought we return to that sort of politics but unfortunately we did.

Thatcher would have hated Johnson, just as she hated and mistrusted Archer. He would have lasted 5 minutes in her Cabinet.

There are distinct parallels. Both adored by members but mostly and widely distrusted by other MPs although the membership is turning on Johnson.

Thatcher how to keep wrong'uns close. Unfortunately Cameron was no Thatcher and neither was Cameron.

 

[The Clamp]

The mines had to be closed. Surely no-one believes the miners should still be down there digging up coal that nobody wants.

It was not a good position for the country to be in, to be at the mercy of the miners. I do not recognise the right of coal miners to dictate to me whether I should work or whether I should not. And imagine if they still had the power of cutting off the country's power, when business depends on electricity so much more than it used to.

Industries have disappeared before. I could have been spending my days in a noisy mill weaving cotton, rather than in an office working a computer, if it hadn't been for the demise of the cotton industry (rather earlier than the demise of the coal industry). I'm not sorry.

There are ways of doing things.

 

[Fat Boy Fat]

If Thatcher wasn't thinking of green issues perhaps Labour where as they closed down far more pits than Maggie.

This wasn't about who did what, but about Boris Johnson's lack of empathy once again (let the bodies pile high for one previous) and someone claiming Margaret Thatcher closed coal mines to prove her green credentials...

 

[jakarta]

There are ways of doing things.

Don't normally agree with You but ...

A good mate of mine in the same line of work (Occupational Health & Safety) learned his trade working for British Coal down in South Wales.

Was a third generation Miner and lost two of his uncles to Silicosis. As he once said to me (I paraphrase) No one who has ever worked down a mine would ever think it was a worthwhile industry, we killed people with accidents, or ruined their health with lung disease, noise induced hearing loss and vibration white finger. All to produce a fuel that destroyed the environment.

As Coal was phased out far, far more should have done to help the communities that the closures affected, but please don't think Coal Mining was a good thing in itself. The same could be said for Oil and Gas, Industries I was involved in since the early 1990's.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

What is the problem,if any government wants green/renewable fossilhas to go. As for communities they have sadly long gone well before M/T. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58117044:dunce:

The mines and the miners are gone. Their communities are gone. Mocking them is disgusting. And you can't see that

You are a sad, sad man. 110% Gammon. Get a grip before you fall between the cracks.

 

[dazzer6666]

This isn't a debate about what Labour or the Conservatives did in the 1970s and 80s and more about a potty mouth PM who'd be better of as a drunk Head of State wheeled out for ceremonial purposes.

Utterly pissing off his own MPs who fought hard to gain seat in traditional working class areas.

His popularity amongst members has dropped off a cliff.

Even if it has, if the polls show him likely to win a GE, they’ll keep schtum.

 

[clapham_gull]

Even if it has, if the polls show him likely to win a GE, they’ll keep schtum.

Of course, but I'm deliberately separating the two. The Conservative party as it stands is a marriage of convenience, oddly with a stooge as leader with very little support internally with MPs, but able to win at the ballot box.

The neo-liberal element who have taken over the party (similar to what happened to Labour with Momentum) haven't as yet identified a vote winning leader. That's why Johnson is still there, he is currently useful to them in that he has no interest un running anything but quite happy with the job title.

 

[dazzer6666]

Of course, but I'm deliberately separating the two. The Conservative party as it stands is a marriage of convenience, oddly with a stooge as leader with very little support internally with MPs, but able to win at the ballot box.

The neo-liberal element who have taken over the party (similar to what happened to Labour with Momentum) haven't as yet identified a vote winning leader. That's why Johnson is still there, he is currently useful to them in that he has no interest un running anything but quite happy with the job title.

Yep. ****ing depressing isn’t it ? Johnson could probably knock one out in public and still get voted in as things stand…….

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

https://youtu.be/kDcoJN9fnVI

Johnsons idea of a comedy show.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

So you'd rather live in the filthy, sooty, black slum that was England before natural gas was piped into all our homes?

The fantastic mining industries and communities became obsolete almost overnight in Britain and around the world.

That's what humans do - evolve! That's why we currently live in a gigabyte super digital streaming world of data and information and have cast away the ink pens and blotting paper etc of my childhood.

One thing that will never change though - is humans ability to produce garbage!

I think you rather missed the point there. Thatcher’s main aim was to destroy the communities - the coal mines closing was almost incidental.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

The mines had to be closed. Surely no-one believes the miners should still be down there digging up coal that nobody wants.

It was not a good position for the country to be in, to be at the mercy of the miners. I do not recognise the right of coal miners to dictate to me whether I should work or whether I should not. And imagine if they still had the power of cutting off the country's power, when business depends on electricity so much more than it used to.

Industries have disappeared before. I could have been spending my days in a noisy mill weaving cotton, rather than in an office working a computer, if it hadn't been for the demise of the cotton industry (rather earlier than the demise of the coal industry). I'm not sorry.

The point surely is Thatcher’s lack of effort to do anything for those communities once their principle source of work and income had gone.

 

[DataPoint]

I think you rather missed the point there. Thatcher’s main aim was to destroy the communities - the coal mines closing was almost incidental.

I didn't miss the point - mines had been closing since the war. This is an extract from Wikipedia:

'Between 1947 and 1994, some 950 mines were closed by UK governments. Clement Attlee’s Labour government closed 101 pits between 1947 and 1951; Macmillan (Conservative) closed 246 pits between 1957 and 1963; Wilson (Labour) closed 253 in his two terms in office between 1964 and 1976; Heath (Conservative) closed 26 between 1970 and 1974; and Thatcher (Conservative) closed 115 between 1979 and 1990.'

Only Thatcher is demonised. Why would anyone (other than Hitler) aim to destroy a community?

As for me - I have the greatest respect and admiration possible for the extraordinary mining industry and their communities. It's almost impossible to imagine the hell and death and disease they and their families endured.

Britain owes them a huge debt for the status we now enjoy.