Border staff strike - should strikers be sacked ?

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

If this is true then they ought to be sacking their union leader rather than blaming successive governments and attempting to hold the country to ransom on the eve of the Olympics. What sort of shithouse union leader allows it's members to be shafted year on year on year like that? Say what you like about Bob Crowe, but there is no way that would happen on his watch, because he KNOWS his job is to ensure his members are looked after.

Attempting to hold a gun to the head of the government like this after failing to deal with the problem for YEARS is one surefire way of minimising public support and will not lead to anything like a satisfactory resolution. So the only conclusion I can draw is that Serwotka is an incompetent wanker who should be booted out by his members, and the border staff are complete f***ing idiots for not seeing this.

THIS

If I was in that Union, I'd be looking to get rid of him ASAP.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

That's not the point I was trying to make. I was trying to point out the staff may have good conditions because their trade union in past went on strike to get those good conditions.

A family member works for the Border Agency and he is extremely angry with the mismanagement of the agency by the previous and current government and the way it has been neglected over the past few years. The main problem being cutbacks in staff numbers. Quite frankly some of the stories he tells me are shocking.

Sorry brother; I was being facetious. I actually support the strike.

 

[father_and_son]

I don't believe that anyone should be sacked merely for union membership and any associated, legal, activity.

By the same token I don't agree with Union boses calling for strike action on days which are controversial. This is unnecessarily confrontational and gets little/no public sympathy.

Articualte your grievances to management, call a ballot and if the majority of members agree (not just the majority of voters!) then take action. BUT, demonstrate that you are a reasonable human being with understanding of the bigger picture and don't call your strike on a particularly contentious day solely to p*ss off the general public - it's management you are trying to inconvenience, not the whole economy!

 

[teaboy]

I don't believe that anyone should be sacked merely for union membership and any associated, legal, activity.

By the same token I don't agree with Union boses calling for strike action on days which are controversial. This is unnecessarily confrontational and gets little/no public sympathy.

Articualte your grievances to management, call a ballot and if the majority of members agree (not just the majority of voters!) then take action. BUT, demonstrate that you are a reasonable human being with understanding of the bigger picture and don't call your strike on a particularly contentious day solely to p*ss off the general public - it's management you are trying to inconvenience, not the whole economy!

So you'd make voting compulsory then?

 

[father_and_son]

So you'd make voting compulsory then?

Not quite...
I'd make the default answer to be "no" and so the number of Yes votes would have to be more than half of thiose balloted. As long as this is perfectly clear upfront, I think you'd get a sufficiently large mandate either way.

 

[BALDISBEAUTIFUL]

Before spouting off get the facts you wankers. Like most things nowadays the government and people in charge are f***ing this country up big time.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Not quite...
I'd make the default answer to be "no".

On what grounds? You'd seriously bias the data this way.

 

[Dandyman]

More than the 22% of the British Public that voted Blair back in, in 2005

Cameron won 36.1% of a 65% turnout which I make 23.46%.

 

[Westdene Wonder]

I have never voted Tory but we need another Thatcher to sort this group out,lets see if Cameron is up for it.

They must have been encouraged by the award of £500 bonus for Tube drivers,we can now expect the same demands for Bank Holiday shifts,high Summer season shifts etc,etc

 

[16bha]

Using your bizarre logic is fatally floored- yes, only 10% of the workforce voted to strike BUT even less voted to not strike!
That my young chum, means that they do have a mandate - use a dictionary before spouting off!

Ever heard the term 'apathy'? Its in the dictionary under 'A'!! The fact that they couldn't be arsed to vote sends a pretty clear message. I've finished spouting off now.

 

[levski seagull]

Serwotka's a class A wanker, hopefully the strike will fall flat on its face and he'll get found out, when he's on the dole in a couple of years time at least he'll have his fat union pension to fall back on.

 

[Alfie22]

How on earth do you know they are delighted with their lot for starters? Perhaps because they are not delighted with their lot they are striking. Do you know anyone who actually works for the Border Agency and how bad their job has become?

I work for UKBA and will not be striking. Why? As pointed out on here it is about professional pride and serving the public - doing what I am paid a decent wage to do. I count myself lucky to have a job, I count myself doubly lucky to have the flexible working arrangements, a pension arrangement, a decent salary and a career, in times of austerity. Yes there have been changes to pensions, yes it is common knowledge that there have been cuts but the vast majority of the people who have left over the past couple of years left on voluntary release schemes. Nobody forced them out and they got paid decent monetary compensation for leaving. The civil service has been bloated for over a decade and the government measures to cut back, including introducing tougher performance management procedures to ensure those that are "workshy" are moved on I fully support. I don't like to read generalistic negative statements about civil servants but I accept the public perception when the small minority do things like this. Given the numbers involved it's probably just the reps themselves that voted for it! There are some good, honest people in the service who care, who are being turned inside out by the Olympics (my wife has been on call for the past five weeks solid), so please, don't tarnish us all with the same brush.

 

[16bha]

I work for UKBA and will not be striking. Why? As pointed out on here it is about professional pride and serving the public - doing what I am paid a decent wage to do. I count myself lucky to have a job, I count myself doubly lucky to have the flexible working arrangements, a pension arrangement, a decent salary and a career, in times of austerity. Yes there have been changes to pensions, yes it is common knowledge that there have been cuts but the vast majority of the people who have left over the past couple of years left on voluntary release schemes. Nobody forced them out and they got paid decent monetary compensation for doing leaving. The civil service has been bloated for over a decade and the government measures to cut back, including introducing tougher performance management procedures to ensure those that are "workshy" are moved on I fully support. I don't like to read generalistic negative statements about civil servants but I accept the public perception when the small minority do things like this. Given the numbers involved it's probably just the reps themselves that voted for it! There are some good, honest people in the service who care, who are being turned inside out by the Olympics (my wife has been on call for the past five weeks solid), so please, don't tarnish us all with the same brush.

This

 

[Mutts Nuts]

What does NSC think?

Of couse they should be sacked,the wankers are lucky to have a job let alone such a secure one.Anyone who dislikes there working conditions has the choice to leave the company they work for so that another person can benefit and take the job in there place.

 

[Mileoakman]

I dont believe you work for the border agency and your making this up to support your point of view.

Tell me your works dept number/location and section number and I'll check it against my recently made redundant relatives details. Your pay grade would be helpful to
Do that and its right and I'll apologise.

 

[West Hoathly Seagull]

I work for UKBA and will not be striking. Why? As pointed out on here it is about professional pride and serving the public - doing what I am paid a decent wage to do. I count myself lucky to have a job, I count myself doubly lucky to have the flexible working arrangements, a pension arrangement, a decent salary and a career, in times of austerity. Yes there have been changes to pensions, yes it is common knowledge that there have been cuts but the vast majority of the people who have left over the past couple of years left on voluntary release schemes. Nobody forced them out and they got paid decent monetary compensation for leaving. The civil service has been bloated for over a decade and the government measures to cut back, including introducing tougher performance management procedures to ensure those that are "workshy" are moved on I fully support. I don't like to read generalistic negative statements about civil servants but I accept the public perception when the small minority do things like this. Given the numbers involved it's probably just the reps themselves that voted for it! There are some good, honest people in the service who care, who are being turned inside out by the Olympics (my wife has been on call for the past five weeks solid), so please, don't tarnish us all with the same brush.

Quite right. I used to work for the Home Office (I left in 2009 after a manager had driven me to depression and so I decided to do a Masters degree) and the working conditions were excellent: 5 weeks' leave rising to 6 after 10 years' service, 36 hour week and up to 3 days' flex leave per month (even though I was so busy I hardly ever took it). The PCS would use any cause to drag us out on strike. In 2008, they tried to get us out over pay. Having received a 4.5% pay rise that year, I felt I could not possibly agree to this; okay it was a progression rise for me, but even so, it was still almost a grand in actual pay. The problem was the left-wing leadership - at one time we had a moderate leadership, who were pretty well New Labour, but then lefties took over. Serwotka is not even a Labour supporter - he was a leading figure in some left-wing party. At the same time, there must be a reason for far stronger support among UKBA staff for strikes than among Home Office Headquarters staff - this was always the case. Saying that, the government was hardly wise to cut large numbers of staff when the Olympics was coming up. So would I sack people for striking? Probably not, though the timing is appalling and dire tactics by the union. An agreement should have been worked out by the union and management a long time ago. I do see why the staff are fed up though. In my time at the Home Office, we had just two Permanent Secretaries - Sir John Gieve and Sir David Normington. UKBA have had regular management changes and a number of Ministers, only one of whom, Des Browne, really got on top of the job.

 

[Alfie22]

I dont believe you work for the border agency and your making this up to support your point of view.

Tell me your works dept number/location and section number and I'll check it against my recently made redundant relatives details. Your pay grade would be helpful to
Do that and its right and I'll apologise.

Apologies but I really don't feel the need to divulge this information and whether you believe me or not is of little or no importance to me or my point of view. What I will say is that I work in Croydon and have done for the past 12 years. I currently manage a team of 15 (shortly to expand to 30) but I joined the HO as an asylum case-worker at what probably turned out to be the peak of the immigration "problem" where every week seemed to bring 10's of new staff. I've lost track of the amount of Home Secretaries but the fact remains that throughout that time I've truly valued the various roles I've undertaken and always tried to deliver in them and I hope to continue to do that. I used to see my Father go to work every day stressed and come back looking ill because of his work in a factory and seeing that was another reminder of how lucky I was to have the "perks" I mentioned previously. I also met my wife there which is something I will also be grateful to the HO for! The people who do go out on Thursday will have their reasons for doing so, I for one, don't share them.

 

[Mileoakman]

Fair do's then, you probably do work for them and I am sorry I didn't believe you. My point is that I know people who worked for the Border Agency who painted a different picture and who felt that their abilty to do the job properly was being compromised and getting worse. To a large degree there not complaining just about pay and conditions but also about staffing levels.

Anyway again my apologies.

 

[jimhigham]

I work for UKBA and will not be striking. Why? As pointed out on here it is about professional pride and serving the public - doing what I am paid a decent wage to do. I count myself lucky to have a job, I count myself doubly lucky to have the flexible working arrangements, a pension arrangement, a decent salary and a career, in times of austerity. Yes there have been changes to pensions, yes it is common knowledge that there have been cuts but the vast majority of the people who have left over the past couple of years left on voluntary release schemes. Nobody forced them out and they got paid decent monetary compensation for leaving. The civil service has been bloated for over a decade and the government measures to cut back, including introducing tougher performance management procedures to ensure those that are "workshy" are moved on I fully support. I don't like to read generalistic negative statements about civil servants but I accept the public perception when the small minority do things like this. Given the numbers involved it's probably just the reps themselves that voted for it! There are some good, honest people in the service who care, who are being turned inside out by the Olympics (my wife has been on call for the past five weeks solid), so please, don't tarnish us all with the same brush.

Well said that man. I am also with UKBF and I agree with you entirely. I am with the other union, which has also called strikes over the last year and I have turned scab on each occasion. I serve the public and they pay my wages. There are many aspects of the work that frustrate but I take my own personal public service remit seriously. In this particular case I suspect that there will be few striking. There seems to be little appetite for Serwotka's naked aggression in this case and, while electorally a majority, it is possibly the least convincing of mandates seen in modern times...

...and in case a suspicious soul thinks I am lying about my employment I would point out that my actual name goes with this message. I'd hardly do that if I wasn't, would I?

 

[DJ Leon]

My point is that I know people who worked for the Border Agency who painted a different picture and who felt that their abilty to do the job properly was being compromised and getting worse. To a large degree there not complaining just about pay and conditions but also about staffing levels.

Ditto. This is my understanding from members of the Border Agency too.