[News] Boom in Baby Banks

[Green Cross Code Man]

I’m not suggesting you’re misleading me, lying or making a political point. And I have no issue that this might occur. In fact I’m sure it does occur, there will always be someone who cheats any system. But what I don’t know is if it’s a significant issue as you suggest with your “many” comment. All you have offered up is some anecdotal evidence which you must surely understand is a weak argument; it’s just what you have seen and experienced which I goimg to be limited.

Okay, sorry, that's a fair point. I should have said I had experience of this happening with people I knew many times.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

It's the complete opposite of this: we're not producing enough children, the birthrate is about 1.7 per female and has been for about 40 or 50 years. We've been saved from economic calamity by the relatively high rate of immigration but if this falls in the future (as is May's wish), we are going to see a big change.

Immigration not only brings in younger workers but also fertile mothers - there's an increase in the number of babies born to non-British-born mothers. I believe the birthrate for UK-born mothers is just over 1.5.

I suspect that if immigration does reduce in the future, we'll start to see great financial incentives to have children because a society with a birth rate of 1.5 and an increased life expectancy is a society in serious trouble.

I totally disagree. We are saved from more immediate economic calamity by postponing it in a far greater measure further down the road. Our planet cannot sustain the kind of population growth we see in humanity. We are fairly rapidly leading a huge mass extinction at the moment and further humans with our destructive traits and appetites, coupled with climate change only hastens the inevitable.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Okay, sorry, that's a fair point. I should have said I had experience of this happening with people I knew many times.

I know of several families with five or six children. All the fathers are present, working, and most of the mothers also work part-time. One mother I know has qualified as a child minder, so looks after others' children as well as her own.
They contribute to the food bank in Whitehawk which is run by the Trussell Trust.

All generalisations are bad.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I totally disagree. We are saved from more immediate economic calamity by postponing it in a far greater measure further down the road. Our planet cannot sustain the kind of population growth we see in humanity. We are fairly rapidly leading a huge mass extinction at the moment and further humans with our destructive traits and appetites, coupled with climate change only hastens the inevitable.

The younger generation working is paying for the older ones like me. Pensions come from taxes. Stephen Fry produces a good graph in this video.
(warning it does also contain anti EU stuff) You can find it 2 mins 53.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

I know of several families with five or six children. All the fathers are present, working, and most of the mothers also work part-time. One mother I know has qualified as a child minder, so looks after others' children as well as her own.
They contribute to the food bank in Whitehawk which is run by the Trussell Trust.

All generalisations are bad.

All generalisations are bad. I hope that's a joke, if so, i like it a lot!

 

[Thunder Bolt]

All generalisations are bad. I hope that's a joke, if so, i like it a lot!

Of course, it was

 

[GT49er]

So it’s just anecdotal evidence then. I’ll leave you to this thread I think.

First hand observation and experience is not 'anecdotal evidence'. I too have witnessed at first hand what Green Cross Code Man has observed. It happens; it is fact.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

First hand observation and experience is not 'anecdotal evidence'. I too have witnessed at first hand what Green Cross Code Man has observed. It happens; it is fact.

It happens, but it isn't the norm.

Where you have society, you have a vast spectrum of people and lifestyles. We can all find examples to match our beliefs.

 

[Gwylan]

I totally disagree. We are saved from more immediate economic calamity by postponing it in a far greater measure further down the road. Our planet cannot sustain the kind of population growth we see in humanity. We are fairly rapidly leading a huge mass extinction at the moment and further humans with our destructive traits and appetites, coupled with climate change only hastens the inevitable.

I thought you were talking about the UK when you said 'our benefits' I think you'll find that there's not much in the way of housing or unemployment benefits in Africa or Asia.

I agree that population growth could be an issue in the future - although a lot of the problems are the levels of consumption - but there's a disconnect here, Western Europe does have the opposite problem - there aren't enough babies being born. Immigration is restoring the balance slightly and the UK is better off than some countries because of our high level of immigration but attempts to regulate that flow will cause problems in the future.

In another thread, I joke about Dixon of Dock Green and its 80-year old copper but, if the number of immigrants really is cut, that will be the reality in the future unless we start increasing our birth rate pretty soon

 

[Giraffe]

According to ITV news, none 10 years ago now 6 in Kent, 4 in Sussex and 2 in Essex

https://www.itv.com/news/meridian/2...ts-fuel-boom-in-baby-banks-in-the-south-east/

For struggling parents that cant afford their babies.

Does that mean there is greater need now? Or that people are kindly now doing something about it. Surely that's a good thing?

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

I thought you were talking about the UK when you said 'our benefits' I think you'll find that there's not much in the way of housing or unemployment benefits in Africa or Asia.

I agree that population growth could be an issue in the future - although a lot of the problems are the levels of consumption - but there's a disconnect here, Western Europe does have the opposite problem - there aren't enough babies being born. Immigration is restoring the balance slightly and the UK is better off than some countries because of our high level of immigration but attempts to regulate that flow will cause problems in the future.

In another thread, I joke about Dixon of Dock Green and its 80-year old copper but, if the number of immigrants really is cut, that will be the reality in the future unless we start increasing our birth rate pretty soon

Sorry, I was digressing/rambling a little.

 

[Gwylan]

First hand observation and experience is not 'anecdotal evidence'.

Yes it is - that's precisely what anecdotal evidence is.

It's a bit like saying that smoking is not for your health as I know two heavy smokers in my family who lived to their 90s: it's anecdotal evidence but not solid research

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

It happens, but it isn't the norm.

Where you have society, you have a vast spectrum of people and lifestyles. We can all find examples to match our beliefs

I honestly don't know if it's the norm or not, but that statement could equally be written: We can always find examples that form our beliefs'.

 

[brightn'ove]

First hand observation and experience is not 'anecdotal evidence'. I too have witnessed at first hand what Green Cross Code Man has observed. It happens; it is fact.

That is literally the definition of anecdotal evidence.

 

[GT49er]

I never said it was the norm. I stated that it happens, and that it is not uncommon. That is fact - I'm not making any generalisations or judgements, but I reserve the right to call out the people who pooh pooh the idea that it happens, claiming it's all just anecdotal evidence, or maybe some kind of urban myth. It isn't.

 

[Couldn't Be Hyypia]

It's the complete opposite of this: we're not producing enough children, the birthrate is about 1.7 per female

What is it when you add in the birthrate per male?

 

[GT49er]

Yes it is - that's precisely what anecdotal evidence is.

It's a bit like saying that smoking is not for your health as I know two heavy smokers in my family who lived to their 90s: it's anecdotal evidence but not solid research

No, anecdotal evidence is something you've heard, or what someone's said. What is observed is fact.

I myself knew two heavy smoking relatives who lasted until their 90s (well, one of them only to his 80s tbh). That is a fact. It is not evidence that smoking isn't harmful - and I've never suggested it was.
If I said, 'I've heard of lots of heavy smokers who lived into their 90s', that would be anecdotal.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

First hand observation and experience is not 'anecdotal evidence'. I too have witnessed at first hand what Green Cross Code Man has observed. It happens; it is fact.

It’s anecdotal evidence to me. In fact it’s the very definition imho.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I never said it was the norm. I stated that it happens, and that it is not uncommon. That is fact - I'm not making any generalisations or judgements, but I reserve the right to call out the people who pooh pooh the idea that it happens, claiming it's all just anecdotal evidence, or maybe some kind of urban myth. It isn't.

You’re trying yourself up in a few knots here. It was the OP we are questioning, he stated “many”....based on his own very limited observations.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

No, anecdotal evidence is something you've heard, or what someone's said.

delete. is easier.