ZizkovClaret
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- May 17, 2016
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[Albion] Bong being abused all game.
- Thread starter clapham_gull
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ClaretMatt
New member
- Nov 19, 2015
- 65
Burnley fan here, full disclosure.
1) I took part in booing Bong
2) I did not take part in the "Town full of..." chant
3) I did not hear "Town full of P-" from Brighton fans from my position in the JHL but a friend of mine who sits in the Cricket Field End, who has no reason to lie and I have no reason to disbelieve, said he heard it from a very small minority of Brighton fans ("10 to 15 of them" in his words).
4) I did not hear any racist abuse of Bong during the game. Had there been I would have expected it to be confronted.
RE: 1)
Why did I boo Bong? For me it wasn't about him making the accusation. Regardless of the outcome of the tribunal I would not have booed him (and had it been proven I would have written off any loyalty to Jay Rodriguez as "one of our own") had Bong not;
a) Gone on TV to brand Jay Rodriguez as racist whilst the investigation was still ongoing (contradicting his statements made at the time of the incident btw, as pointed out in the FA report)
b) Insinuated/misrepresented that JR had apologised for being racist following the outcome of the investigation/tribunal
c) Then made a further statement, with BHA, that JR had made racist comments after GB’s misrepresentation was refuted
Many posts about this incident on here liken the tribunal/verdict to that of a criminal trial. In a criminal trial, GB going on TV whilst the investigation was ongoing would likely have been seen as something that could prejudice the case and could have led to it's collapse. By doing so and continuing to brand JR racist after the conclusion of the tribunal, he has pretty much moved into defamation IMO.
It is that he has continued to insist there is no possibility of him mishearing what was said and that JR was/is racist that was the reason I took part in booing him. Do I think this is why most were booing him? No. Do I think had the accusation been proven by the investigation/tribunal that Bong would have been booed by the Burnley fans? No.
Whilst on the topic of the outcome of the tribunal, a lot of posts in here point to the verdict of "Not Proven" not being the same as being cleared and, somewhat ironically, like to imply it suggests guilty. There is also the suggestion that Burnley fans don't understand the tribunal process and what "Not Proven" means, I'd bounce that back because an independent tribunal, as part of the FA Disciplinary procedures, has 2 options; "Proven" & "Not Proven". Not the 3 options of "Guilty", "Not Proven" & "Not Guilty" that some I've seen on here seem to be mistakenly labouring under. So essentially, given the 2 possible outcomes, a "Not Proven" verdict is the same as being "cleared" of the charge.
The gesture JR made has come in for criticism here as being unfunny, childish etc. I agree it's not exactly the height of wit, however, had JR squared up to GB and GB had made that same gesture, laughed and walked away I'm confident the majority of posters on here would have found it funny and there would have been plenty of posts praising him and laughing at JR. Disagree?
RE: 2)
I can't deny that "Town full of B-" was chanted but it was only from a number of fans in the Cricket Field End, it wasn't taken up by any of the other 3 stands. No excuses for it, though, it's unacceptable.
RE: 3)
I think it's possible he misheard, after all, some Brighton fans have been claiming Burnley were chanting "We're racist, we don't care" when the chant was "No one likes us, we don't care". And yet GB won't accept any possibility he misheard JR, in his second language in a similar atmosphere...
RE: 4)
A lot of reference made to Burnley being racist due to having BNP & UKIP representation - we don't, haven't done since 2010 when the 1 remaining BNP councillor lost his seat. Also to racially abusing Andre Gray - they didn't, one fan racially abused a Bradford player during a preseason friendly, he was confronted by the Burnley fans and identified to the stewards and was removed from the game.
PS. Shout out to the posters who have called out Burnley fans as being "thick" whilst making some of the most basic grammatical errors. They provided some light relief to the somewhat painful slog through the 30 odd pages of this thread.
1) I took part in booing Bong
2) I did not take part in the "Town full of..." chant
3) I did not hear "Town full of P-" from Brighton fans from my position in the JHL but a friend of mine who sits in the Cricket Field End, who has no reason to lie and I have no reason to disbelieve, said he heard it from a very small minority of Brighton fans ("10 to 15 of them" in his words).
4) I did not hear any racist abuse of Bong during the game. Had there been I would have expected it to be confronted.
RE: 1)
Why did I boo Bong? For me it wasn't about him making the accusation. Regardless of the outcome of the tribunal I would not have booed him (and had it been proven I would have written off any loyalty to Jay Rodriguez as "one of our own") had Bong not;
a) Gone on TV to brand Jay Rodriguez as racist whilst the investigation was still ongoing (contradicting his statements made at the time of the incident btw, as pointed out in the FA report)
b) Insinuated/misrepresented that JR had apologised for being racist following the outcome of the investigation/tribunal
c) Then made a further statement, with BHA, that JR had made racist comments after GB’s misrepresentation was refuted
Many posts about this incident on here liken the tribunal/verdict to that of a criminal trial. In a criminal trial, GB going on TV whilst the investigation was ongoing would likely have been seen as something that could prejudice the case and could have led to it's collapse. By doing so and continuing to brand JR racist after the conclusion of the tribunal, he has pretty much moved into defamation IMO.
It is that he has continued to insist there is no possibility of him mishearing what was said and that JR was/is racist that was the reason I took part in booing him. Do I think this is why most were booing him? No. Do I think had the accusation been proven by the investigation/tribunal that Bong would have been booed by the Burnley fans? No.
Whilst on the topic of the outcome of the tribunal, a lot of posts in here point to the verdict of "Not Proven" not being the same as being cleared and, somewhat ironically, like to imply it suggests guilty. There is also the suggestion that Burnley fans don't understand the tribunal process and what "Not Proven" means, I'd bounce that back because an independent tribunal, as part of the FA Disciplinary procedures, has 2 options; "Proven" & "Not Proven". Not the 3 options of "Guilty", "Not Proven" & "Not Guilty" that some I've seen on here seem to be mistakenly labouring under. So essentially, given the 2 possible outcomes, a "Not Proven" verdict is the same as being "cleared" of the charge.
The gesture JR made has come in for criticism here as being unfunny, childish etc. I agree it's not exactly the height of wit, however, had JR squared up to GB and GB had made that same gesture, laughed and walked away I'm confident the majority of posters on here would have found it funny and there would have been plenty of posts praising him and laughing at JR. Disagree?
RE: 2)
I can't deny that "Town full of B-" was chanted but it was only from a number of fans in the Cricket Field End, it wasn't taken up by any of the other 3 stands. No excuses for it, though, it's unacceptable.
RE: 3)
I think it's possible he misheard, after all, some Brighton fans have been claiming Burnley were chanting "We're racist, we don't care" when the chant was "No one likes us, we don't care". And yet GB won't accept any possibility he misheard JR, in his second language in a similar atmosphere...
RE: 4)
A lot of reference made to Burnley being racist due to having BNP & UKIP representation - we don't, haven't done since 2010 when the 1 remaining BNP councillor lost his seat. Also to racially abusing Andre Gray - they didn't, one fan racially abused a Bradford player during a preseason friendly, he was confronted by the Burnley fans and identified to the stewards and was removed from the game.
PS. Shout out to the posters who have called out Burnley fans as being "thick" whilst making some of the most basic grammatical errors. They provided some light relief to the somewhat painful slog through the 30 odd pages of this thread.
I was located 10’ from the segregation area for the whole of the second half (a bit further away for the first half) and heard no monkey chanting.
Shit loads of booing - sounded like the great bulk of that stand - but no monkey chants.
Shit loads of booing - sounded like the great bulk of that stand - but no monkey chants.
I was about four seats from the partition with the Burnley fans, next to [MENTION=27447]Goldstone1976[/MENTION].
Burnley fans booed Bong every time he touched the ball, honestly heard nothing else. To a certain extent I'm with [MENTION=12825]cunning fergus[/MENTION] on this issue. Booing is not the same as being racist, unlike monkey chants and similar repulsive noises. The danger is that the racists within the Burnley fanbase will seize upon this as an opportunity to get their bigoted kicks from giving grief to a person due to the colour of his skin, hiding behind the veil of supporting 'one of their own'. The issue is muddied because the initial accusation was race based.
As for the chants, Brighton fans did not sing 'Town full of pakis', equally Burnley fans did not sing 'We are racists, we don't care'. Sometimes people hear what they want to hear, and are very rapid to spead such accusations on social media.
When it comes to the Bong issue, it's Suarez v Evra, Terry v Ferdinand all over again. Something was said, something was heard, and in the case of Gaeten Bong he is adamant what was said by Rodriquez. Could he have misheard? Possibly, depends on a number of factors, background noise, accent, and so on. Was he entitled to report what he believed he heard to the referee? Certainly.
The FA concluded on the matter, the best thing to have happened would have been for both players to have said nothing after the day of the ruling. That didn't happen when Rodriquez gave his 'truth will come out' comment, as the one thing the investigation was unable to determine was the truth in terms of what was said.
On the separate issue of homophobia, some Burnley fans were pathetic, that doesn't make every person in the fanbase a bellend, every town his bigoted ********s. Sadly we also have some pond life at the Albion, as the bloke sitting in the row behind me last week when we played Spurs thought it 'hilarious' to make hissing/gas noises when Spurs had the ball.
Burnley fans booed Bong every time he touched the ball, honestly heard nothing else. To a certain extent I'm with [MENTION=12825]cunning fergus[/MENTION] on this issue. Booing is not the same as being racist, unlike monkey chants and similar repulsive noises. The danger is that the racists within the Burnley fanbase will seize upon this as an opportunity to get their bigoted kicks from giving grief to a person due to the colour of his skin, hiding behind the veil of supporting 'one of their own'. The issue is muddied because the initial accusation was race based.
As for the chants, Brighton fans did not sing 'Town full of pakis', equally Burnley fans did not sing 'We are racists, we don't care'. Sometimes people hear what they want to hear, and are very rapid to spead such accusations on social media.
When it comes to the Bong issue, it's Suarez v Evra, Terry v Ferdinand all over again. Something was said, something was heard, and in the case of Gaeten Bong he is adamant what was said by Rodriquez. Could he have misheard? Possibly, depends on a number of factors, background noise, accent, and so on. Was he entitled to report what he believed he heard to the referee? Certainly.
The FA concluded on the matter, the best thing to have happened would have been for both players to have said nothing after the day of the ruling. That didn't happen when Rodriquez gave his 'truth will come out' comment, as the one thing the investigation was unable to determine was the truth in terms of what was said.
On the separate issue of homophobia, some Burnley fans were pathetic, that doesn't make every person in the fanbase a bellend, every town his bigoted ********s. Sadly we also have some pond life at the Albion, as the bloke sitting in the row behind me last week when we played Spurs thought it 'hilarious' to make hissing/gas noises when Spurs had the ball.
mejonaNO12 aka riskit
Well-known member
What an awful post. I was going to highlight the REALLY bad bits but it's all there.
He made a COMPLETELY legitimate accusation in his opinion. The review found NO MALICE was involved in the accusation. So either he HAS received abuse or he has MISHEARD something which he believe was abuse. I don't know. I'll never know and I wouldn't even dare try and guess if he did. It's not my place.
How dare a bunch of self righteous idiots believe it is there place to BOO someone who GENUINELY feels they have been racially abused. That is truly saddening. What message does that send out? Again, there was NO MALICE involved in the accusation. Just have a think about that. Your comment that it was "nasty" of Bong is simply ludicrous and frankly, staggering.
And just to clarify on your "rightly or wrongly" part. The answer is WRONGLY. It's not a difficult one.
I've said this before and I'll say it again. Why are people such bellends on these things? Why do you feel the need to take sides on a RACISM issue? Bong is our player, but at no time have I been on 'Team Bong' despite being a Brighton fan. It was an accusation between two players. If Rodriguez didn't do it then I wanted him to be found Not Guilty. Nothing to do with which football club they play for.
If you think booing a player who has made an accusation of racial abuse is the same as booing an ex manager than that's also a real worry.
Some things are above football. This is one of them.
Bevendean Hillbilly
New member
I didn't say there weren't, just that I didn't hear any.
Fair comment other than claiming 'un proven' is the same as being cleared. It isn't as you have to take into context the comments from the FA which effectively stated that they could not prove he said what he was accused of and that they had no issues with the complaint from GB. If they could prove he never said that, the verdict would have been the same but their supporting comments would have clearly stated that they had established he had not said it. JR was badly advised to come out with the statement he did after the verdict as the 'the truth' as I believe he put it, quite clearly did not come out!!
Bevendean Hillbilly
New member
I know for a fact that some players really struggle with abuse from the crowd. It puts them off and can affect the outcome of the game. Bong wouldn’t pick up the ball from pitch side for fear of the crowd at turf moor for example.
Now, there’s some players who royally piss me off. Zaha, Hammond (the “wankers” moment when he scored against us) and I feel obligated to let them know my views.
But Bong was prepared to stand up to, what he believed, was an example of racism and then lying, to go to a tribunal and risk being called a fantasist only to find supporters of the perps old club giving him dogs abuse for daring to expose the racist.
He’s not even their player, he just was born there. I wonder if Peter Sutcliffe gets defended up there as he’s a local boy.?
ClaretMatt
New member
- Nov 19, 2015
- 65
As was Bong to go on TV to categorically state both that the gesture* and the words said by JR were racist whilst the investigation was ongoing. As was Bong to tweet in the immediate aftermath of the verdict suggesting that JR had apologised to him for being racist, 3 days before JR made his "truth" statement. As was Bong and BHA to make a further statement after the tribunal insisting that GB 100% had not misheard at the time of the incident and that JR had used racist language.
*in contradiction of what he said in his statements to the FA in the immediate aftermath of the incident as highlighted in the FA report.
Yeah Rodriguez's next visit to the Amex should be interesting!
Hungry Joe
SINNEN
Re; your point 1 - on reflection do you really, honestly, think that that is worthy of booing an opposition player ALL game, especially when Rodriguez isn't even your player anymore (and is hardly in the club legend category), and especially with the sensitivity of the issue with regards to race?. It just seems a bit disingenuous to me. Players from other clubs do and say things we might not agree with all the time, very few ever come in for the level of abuse Bong received on Saturday, especially from '3rd party' fans. I have consistently played Devil's advocate on here regarding this, supporting the possibility than Bong may have misheard and to an extent defending Rodriguez's actions since the hearing, but I can't find any justification for Burnley fans booing Bong all game because, frankly, there just isn't any.
Last edited:
Stato
Well-known member
- Dec 21, 2011
- 7,344
There is no question that booing Rodriguez should he play at the Amex next year would be just as unhelpful as the actions of those Burnley fans that booed Bong. If people want to show Gaeten that he is valued and supported by the fans of this football club, it would be better to sing something in support of him. It would make a change from those in the crowd that still want to dig him out for every tiny error. Perhaps we should be singing:
"He's not one of our own, he's not one of our own...
But we are a diverse group of individuals living in a multi-national and multi-ethnic twenty first century society and we consider place of birth to be far less of a measure of a man than is his character and Gaeten has proven his, both in his commitment to this club, and through the dignity with which he has held himself throughout this unpleasant experience. He was an important part of our promotion winning squad and has proven himself to be a very solid defender at Premier League level and, as he plays with him more, we expect him to play the kind of glorious through-balls to Jose Izquierdo that Kazenga Lua Lua thrived upon during their all too brief partnership.
Gaeten Bong! As previously indicated: Not One Of Our Own! (But then technically, neither was Calde and we all still love him)."
P.S. I'm leaving the following video in an attempt to provide some kind of scarecrow against the invasion of Burnley fans who have rushed their predictably partisan opinions over to this board with the gusto of a Joey Barton stamp on a midfielder who has spent a game outclassing him:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtTC2FxiYGE
"He's not one of our own, he's not one of our own...
But we are a diverse group of individuals living in a multi-national and multi-ethnic twenty first century society and we consider place of birth to be far less of a measure of a man than is his character and Gaeten has proven his, both in his commitment to this club, and through the dignity with which he has held himself throughout this unpleasant experience. He was an important part of our promotion winning squad and has proven himself to be a very solid defender at Premier League level and, as he plays with him more, we expect him to play the kind of glorious through-balls to Jose Izquierdo that Kazenga Lua Lua thrived upon during their all too brief partnership.
Gaeten Bong! As previously indicated: Not One Of Our Own! (But then technically, neither was Calde and we all still love him)."
P.S. I'm leaving the following video in an attempt to provide some kind of scarecrow against the invasion of Burnley fans who have rushed their predictably partisan opinions over to this board with the gusto of a Joey Barton stamp on a midfielder who has spent a game outclassing him:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtTC2FxiYGE
mejonaNO12 aka riskit
Well-known member
Indeed. I'm really surprised people have somehow misconstrued the Burnley fans booing a player who made a non-malicious accusation of racial abuse.
I clearly heard "boooooooooooooooooooo this isn't because of your legitimate right to make an accusation where you feel you have received racial abuse which is extremely serious and needs to be eradicated from the game and in no way should we do anything to send a signal that any individual should in any way be discouraged from making an accusation where they feel they have been the victim of racism, this is actually because of all the other stuff, I hope this is clear boooooooooooooooooooooooo"
I'm staggered there is any confusion.
mejonaNO12 aka riskit
Well-known member
Yep. Booing a player who has not been found guilty of anything would be stupid.
It will happen though. Because some people are stupid.
Bevendean Hillbilly
New member
Why, are you planning to sue?
I’m just saying I believe that our black player was abused by your ex white player...why? Because he has some honour. Rodriguez attempted to apologise to Gaetan for his racist comment, but it was too late as the ref had made a report and had hardly covered himself with glory since.
Your fans, not all...but a lot...then elected to abuse our black player because he’d dared to call Rodriguez out.
As an aside I was sitting right next to your hardcore on Sat. And, whilst most joined in, only about 10% knew why. “Ey daaave, why’re we booing that black blurk fookin’ bongo or summat”
“It’s a fookin wind up? Ee thinks ees fookin bob fookin Marlee”
“Ey, dya think ees a bender?”
Bevendean Hillbilly
New member
Stato. You’ve grown into a very reasonable man. When you were in H block at withdean you would have felt differently.
Dawn Korus
Active member
I won't be booing Rodriguez (if he manages to get a job in the Premier League next season) when he comes to the AMEX. Why? because it will make be as bad as the shameful Burnley fans
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
Gaetan did not tweet that JR had apologised to him for being racist. His tweet said JR had apologised to him.
Totally different.
Bevendean Hillbilly
New member
How.? Seriously...how?
If I came on here and said that black guys stink I’d be hoofed off the board.
It’s just about whether you think racists should be challenged. Jay Rodriguez is a professional doing a job...how would you be viewed if you walked up to a black colleague and announced that his breath stinks because he’s black.?
Booing a racist is at least justifiable.