Bolton Wanderers receive winding up petition

[Cowfold Seagull]

Aren't we just another Bolton? Rich sugar daddy bankrolling the club massively which is all hunky dory for as long as it continues, but if they stop with little or no notice then the club is stuffed.

Eddie Davies was/is a lifelong Bolton fan in the same way as Tony Bloom is.

Very true. All of our eggs are in the one basket so to speak.

 

[Return of the Rev]

Im not sure you've really thought that one through Rev.

I think i have,long and hard

 

[Return of the Rev]

Aren't we just another Bolton? Rich sugar daddy bankrolling the club massively which is all hunky dory for as long as it continues, but if they stop with little or no notice then the club is stuffed.

Eddie Davies was/is a lifelong Bolton fan in the same way as Tony Bloom is.

And three years on we come to the same conclusion i knew you would get there

 

[Bozza]

Why are you seeking to look more broadly? One club is thieving from the government, the other isn't. Case closed.

Who is thieving from the government? Bolton owe the HMRC money but I imagine at any given moment most businesses, including BHAFC, do.

The amount I've seen mentioned is not particularly significant in terms of a high-wage paying Championship football club - it can only be about a month's worth, give or take, assuming it to be PAYE monies.

Look, I'm not defending Bolton at all, but I do genuinely believe there are significant parallels between them and us, and that if Tony Bloom decided to stop supporting us tomorrow we'd not be in a particularly good place. We don't expect that to happen of course.

 

[Bozza]

And three years on we come to the same conclusion i knew you would get there

I've got no idea what you are trying to say in your usual smug and snidey way but I've long said the same thing regarding Tony Bloom, but there's nothing astounding about that - we all know we are incredibly grateful for what he has done to the club that all of us (not you) dearly love.

 

[wakeytom]

Why are you seeking to look more broadly? One club is thieving from the government, the other isn't. Case closed.

I really dont get your point, yes they have used collected revenues once the owner stopped putting in money, as do most companies when things start to go wrong. If TB did the same thing do you think Brighton would make sure they paid the money to the crown or tried to juggle finances to pay players etc first?

It really does surprise me how many people on here are making negative comments on Bolton, or commenting on how bad they are for living beyond their means when currently this is exactly what Brighton are doing with TB having to put money in every year to cover the losses. He walks away then what happens - people say he will not as he is a Brighton fan but the Bolton owner is a fan man and boy so very similar!

 

[Hotchilidog]

Aren't we just another Bolton? Rich sugar daddy bankrolling the club massively which is all hunky dory for as long as it continues, but if they stop with little or no notice then the club is stuffed.

Eddie Davies was/is a lifelong Bolton fan in the same way as Tony Bloom is.

I can see why you would say that, but I'd say no. The reason being that the club is now set up to generate a decent income and we have yet to ludicrously overspend on players. Should we ever get promoted I would expect the TV money to take up the spending slack and not Bloom himself, which is quite right in my view. I'd also expect Bloom to pay the bills first and avoid this situation in the first place. Tony basically owes himself £200m, Davies/Gartside owe the taxman, I think there is a difference.

 

[wakeytom]

I can see why you would say that, but I'd say no. The reason being that the club is now set up to generate a decent income and we have yet to ludicrously overspend on players. Should we ever get promoted I would expect the TV money to take up the spending slack and not Bloom himself, which is quite right in my view. I'd also expect Bloom to pay the bills first and avoid this situation in the first place. Tony basically owes himself £200m, Davies/Gartside owe the taxman, I think there is a difference.

I am not sure you understand how tax works, they will only have recently owed the tax man since Davies stopped putting in money. If TB stopped putting in money Brighton would be in the same position. Go back 2/3 years when Davies was pumping in the cash there would not be anything owing for taxes outside of the usual creditor terms, which would be the same position as Brighton now

 

[Pavilionaire]

I really dont get your point, yes they have used collected revenues once the owner stopped putting in money, as do most companies when things start to go wrong. If TB did the same thing do you think Brighton would make sure they paid the money to the crown or tried to juggle finances to pay players etc first?

It really does surprise me how many people on here are making negative comments on Bolton, or commenting on how bad they are for living beyond their means when currently this is exactly what Brighton are doing with TB having to put money in every year to cover the losses. He walks away then what happens - people say he will not as he is a Brighton fan but the Bolton owner is a fan man and boy so very similar!

The crucial difference between us and Bolton is solvency. Bolton are insolvent, they are UNABLE TO MEET THEIR DEBTS AS AND WHEN THEY FALL DUE. Brighton ARE solvent because they meet their debts as and when they fall due.

 

[Bozza]

I can see why you would say that, but I'd say no. The reason being that the club is now set up to generate a decent income and we have yet to ludicrously overspend on players. Should we ever get promoted I would expect the TV money to take up the spending slack and not Bloom himself, which is quite right in my view. I'd also expect Bloom to pay the bills first and avoid this situation in the first place. Tony basically owes himself £200m, Davies/Gartside owe the taxman, I think there is a difference.

Bolton Wanderers last reported annual loss: £9.1m
BHAFC last reported annual loss: £10.4m

Bolton Wanderers debt: £173m
BHAFC debt: £200m+

Bolton debt to Eddie Davies: £173m
BHAFC debt to Tony Bloom: £200m+

If Bloom stopped financially supporting the Albion tomorrow we would be losing £1m a month with no way of finding it other than cutting costs dramatically (and that's not easy with a squad of contracted football players) or getting promoted (also not easy).

The key difference is we have the ongoing support of Tony Bloom, and Bolton have lost the support of Eddie Davies.

 

[wakeytom]

The crucial difference between us and Bolton is solvency. Bolton are insolvent, they are UNABLE TO MEET THEIR DEBTS AS AND WHEN THEY FALL DUE. Brighton ARE solvent because they meet their debts as and when they fall due.

Actually Brighton will currently be trading insolvent I would guess but within the accounts it will say that the owners are aware of this and will continue to offer financial support.

IF TONY BLOOM STOPPED FUNDING THE CLUB LIKE DAVIES HAS BRIGHTON WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO MEET THEIR DEBTS WHEN THEY FALL DUE

 

[Return of the Rev]

I've got no idea what you are trying to say in your usual smug and snidey way but I've long said the same thing regarding Tony Bloom, but there's nothing astounding about that - we all know we are incredibly grateful for what he has done to the club that all of us (not you) dearly love.

I pay you a compliment and i get snidey! I think we probably agree on quite a bit but have different styles on commenting on the issues,i like to throw the one liners in and hope people can put the meat on the bones for themselves. Got hammered for having doubts on poyet and now its in line with the general views of the masses. Must have a drink sometime and i'm sure we will enjoy each others company away from the wonderful but cutting world that is nsc.

 

[Hotchilidog]

Bolton Wanderers last reported annual loss: £9.1m
BHAFC last reported annual loss: £10.4m

Bolton Wanderers debt: £173m
BHAFC debt: £200m+

Bolton debt to Eddie Davies: £173m
BHAFC debt to Tony Bloom: £200m+

If Bloom stopped financially supporting the Albion tomorrow we would be losing £1m a month with no way of finding it other than cutting costs dramatically (and that's not easy with a squad of contracted football players) or getting promoted (also not easy).

The key difference is we have the ongoing support of Tony Bloom, and Bolton have lost the support of Eddie Davies.

Well that's me told then, and yes Wakeytom I stand corrected.

I do however think that another key factor is that major part of Bloom's investment has been in physical assets such as the stadium and training facility. A lot of Davies' money will have gone on players. It does seem from the Albion financial figures that the playing budget is for the "most" part supported by the income generated by the club. So if Tony did turn the taps off people would still get paid even if he was massively out of pocket. Again I quite obviously stand to be corrected on this.

 

[Insel affe]

Actually Brighton will currently be trading insolvent I would guess but within the accounts it will say that the owners are aware of this and will continue to offer financial support.

IF TONY BLOOM STOPPED FUNDING THE CLUB LIKE DAVIES HAS BRIGHTON WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO MEET THEIR DEBTS WHEN THEY FALL DUE

Our debts are falling year on year, not increasing.

prudent owners, patiently building for the future rather than going all out bust and paying over exuberant wages are the key in short good management of the investment is essential and the difference between owners who fund clubs.... And ours I am proud to say seem to fit into the prudent category.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Actually Brighton will currently be trading insolvent I would guess but within the accounts it will say that the owners are aware of this and will continue to offer financial support.

IF TONY BLOOM STOPPED FUNDING THE CLUB LIKE DAVIES HAS BRIGHTON WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO MEET THEIR DEBTS WHEN THEY FALL DUE

Firstly, the Albion are NOT insolvent because Bloom has made a commitment to keep funding the shortfall.

And if he were to stop? It's a big 'If' though, isn't it? There are Financial Fair Play parameters that we are adhering to. Bloom has also converted some debt into equity and may be minded to do so in the future. The accounts confirm that Bloom continues to support the club by injecting money in order for it to be able to stay solvent. Therefore, all is well. Indeed, this is the way the vast majority of clubs are run.

And if Bloom decided to walk away, and if we couldn't find a new owner willing to make the same cash injections, then we'd have to cut our cloth accordingly which I'm sure we would.

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

I really dont get your point, yes they have used collected revenues once the owner stopped putting in money, as do most companies when things start to go wrong. If TB did the same thing do you think Brighton would make sure they paid the money to the crown or tried to juggle finances to pay players etc first?

But unlike ticket/catering/merchandising revenues, parachute payments, TV money etc etc, the IncomeTax/NI/VAT never belongs to a business, it belongs to HMRC. If Bolton Wanderers, or any other business, defaults on their monthly/quarterly/annual returns to HMRC because the management is misappropriating the money then HMRC should come down on them immediately as seems to be the case here.

 

[Mr Putdown]

Our debts are falling year on year, not increasing.

prudent owners, patiently building for the future rather than going all out bust and paying over exuberant wages are the key in short good management of the investment is essential and the difference between owners who fund clubs.... And ours I am proud to say seem to fit into the prudent category.

The level of annual losses may be falling but the overall debt continues to increase surely?

 

[wakeytom]

Our debts are falling year on year, not increasing.

prudent owners, patiently building for the future rather than going all out bust and paying over exuberant wages are the key in short good management of the investment is essential and the difference between owners who fund clubs.... And ours I am proud to say seem to fit into the prudent category.

I dont see how this is the case when the directors loan account on the latest accounts increased from £131m to £148m, to me that says there is increased debt

 

[wakeytom]

Firstly, the Albion are NOT insolvent because Bloom has made a commitment to keep funding the shortfall.

And if he were to stop? It's a big 'If' though, isn't it? There are Financial Fair Play parameters that we are adhering to. Bloom has also converted some debt into equity and may be minded to do so in the future. The accounts confirm that Bloom continues to support the club by injecting money in order for it to be able to stay solvent. Therefore, all is well. Indeed, this is the way the vast majority of clubs are run.

And if Bloom decided to walk away, and if we couldn't find a new owner willing to make the same cash injections, then we'd have to cut our cloth accordingly which I'm sure we would.

I said Brighton are trading insolvent which surely they are if they are reliant upon directors funds. I am not trying to make a big point about this as most clubs are run this way, what I am saying though is that when people lambaste Bolton as Bozza have said they were run in a similar way as far as funding goes to Brighton until very very recently

 

[Acker79]

The amount I've seen mentioned is not particularly significant in terms of a high-wage paying Championship football club - it can only be about a month's worth, give or take, assuming it to be PAYE monies.

According to the article in the OP:

A club spokesman said: "Bolton Wanderers can confirm that the club has now received a winding up petition from HMRC in respect of unpaid PAYE and VAT for the month of November.

"Despite requests from the club to HMRC to give it further time to either conclude a sale or raise additional funds, HMRC has proceeded with due process and duly served a petition."​