Bolton Chairman Phil Gartside has died

[Bolton va va]

Who is it down to then ?

I'm not saying that he is solely responsible, but Gartside and the owner appear to have lost control of the finances through catastrophic overspending on players when they were in the PL, which all came home to roost when they were relegated.

Or have I got that wrong.

You've got it wrong.

Bolton's financial troubles have next to nothing to do with our time in the Premier League. The problems really began around 18 months ago when Mr Davies stopped financially backing the club, & though we cut costs massively ( & complied with FFP ) our expenditure was still greater than our diminishing income without ED making up the shortfall.

In football terms, the ammounts that are sinking us are relatively small -at the hearing ,the tax bill was around £600,000 but rising - & less than the debts at a good number of other clubs.

 

[Bolton va va]

Not missed by many in football I suspect. An unpleasant, invariably aggressive,deliberately antagonistic, bully of a man.

You clearly did not know Mr Gartside, but don't let that stop you spouting ignorant shite about a man who has just died.

Thanks to the great majority who have commented with respect & class. Mr Gartside was one of our own who , with Mr Davies, took Bolton to heights we had previously only dreamed of..., RIP Phil & thankyou.

 

[Easy 10]

So if Tony decided he wanted to buy a top quality striker and fund it........you would expect the Board to tell him to "do one"? Its a vehicle for Tony & in Bolton's case Eddie, to do as they see fit essentially. Thats the top and bottom of it. Bolton would have long ceased to be in existence if Eddie had not propped them up. The monies would typically come in as a loan - i.e. debt, which makes the financial position look horrendous. Far better than owing the money to a Bank however I would suggest. So I think the Board are fairly powerless in reality (in that regard). In my opinion Phil cannot be blamed for the financial position at Bolton although granted he clearly had a role.

I wouldn't expect the board to tell Tony to "do one", no. But by the same token, we haven't actually signed what you would call a recognised top quality striker have we ? Tony and the board have always had a handbrake on the spending and invested in the playing side of things carefully.

However, in the halcyon days of Okocha, Djorkaeff, El Hadji Diouff, Bobic, Anelka, Campo etc etc no such handbrake at Bolton existed. They were THROWING money at these players, and whilst they're not the only club to have done that, they'd racked up £165m in debt after 11 years spent in the Premier League when they eventually went down. The owner and chairman ultimately have to take the blame for that.

Yes the bulk of that is owed to the owner (much like ourselves), but having had more than a decade wallowing in the riches of the PL, to have come down with that amount of debt having built up almost exclusively through throwing money at players was ridiculous, and they're paying the price now.

 

[LlcoolJ]

So if Tony decided he wanted to buy a top quality striker and fund it........you would expect the Board to tell him to "do one"? Its a vehicle for Tony & in Bolton's case Eddie, to do as they see fit essentially. Thats the top and bottom of it. Bolton would have long ceased to be in existence if Eddie had not propped them up. The monies would typically come in as a loan - i.e. debt, which makes the financial position look horrendous. Far better than owing the money to a Bank however I would suggest. So I think the Board are fairly powerless in reality (in that regard). In my opinion Phil cannot be blamed for the financial position at Bolton although granted he clearly had a role.

I realise you're sticking up for a mate who has just passed away (which is commendable) but those are some seriously rose tinted specs that you're looking through.

 

[Easy 10]

You've got it wrong.

Bolton's financial troubles have next to nothing to do with our time in the Premier League. The problems really began around 18 months ago when Mr Davies stopped financially backing the club, & though we cut costs massively ( & complied with FFP ) our expenditure was still greater than our diminishing income without ED making up the shortfall.

In football terms, the ammounts that are sinking us are relatively small -at the hearing ,the tax bill was around £600,000 but rising - & less than the debts at a good number of other clubs.

I disagree. The problems may have emerged when Davies got cold feet about continuing to fund Bolton once that PL rug and all its riches had been pulled from under it. But the seeds were sown by overspending during Boltons time in the PL. Getting relegated with £165m of debt - how can you say that was "nothing to do" with your time in the Premier League ?? It has everything to do with it.

 

[Hotchilidog]

I'll go along with whatever Bolton wish. It's their loss and I'll respect how they choose to mark it, be it a minutes silence, applause or just the players wearing black armbands.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

I pray that we have a minutes' SILENCE rather than applause on Saturday.
I'm respectful enough to stand quietly for him, but I won't be applauding the man or his passing.

Genuine question , what has he done to make you feel like that ?

Might be mistaken, but pretty sure HKFC meant nothing personal by his post. The minute's applause seems to be a fairly recent post-Diana thing and seems to have been extended beyond what might be better served by a minute's silence. For example, seem to recall a minute's applause at Withdean for Alan Ball. Just seemed a bit weird to be peer-pressured into applause for somebody with whom you had no personal or emotional attachment whatsoever, whereas a minute's silence seems to be to be universally respectful, and arguably much more moving to all concerned, even for a neutral.

 

[Geordie Seagull]

I realise you're sticking up for a mate who has just passed away (which is commendable) but those are some seriously rose tinted specs that you're looking through.

Yes I am sad to lose Phil, but I wrote it from a professional point of view - I worked in football finance for many years (mainly Prem League & Championship), funding clubs, player transfers, takeovers (etc) so I think I have a reasonable insight to the mechanics (& the reality). Its a crazy world that's for sure. We are very lucky to have Tony at the helm and Paul B is a top guy too (in my opinion) for whats it worth.

Come Saturday however I will still be hoping we steamroller Bolton however!

 

[LlcoolJ]

I disagree. The problems may have emerged when Davies got cold feet about continuing to fund Bolton once that PL rug and all its riches had been pulled from under it. But the seeds were sown by overspending during Boltons time in the PL. Getting relegated with £165m of debt - how can you say that was "nothing to do" with your time in the Premier League ?? It has everything to do with it.

Exactly. And this was pointed out 5 years ago....

http://swissramble.blogspot.co.uk/2010/11/why-bolton-have-so-much-debt.html

 

[sparkie]

There will be plenty of time to debate Bolton's financial woes, but this thread doesn't seem the most appropriate place.
RIP.

 

[Bolton va va]

I disagree. The problems may have emerged when Davies got cold feet about continuing to fund Bolton once that PL rug and all its riches had been pulled from under it. But the seeds were sown by overspending during Boltons time in the PL. Getting relegated with £165m of debt - how can you say that was "nothing to do" with your time in the Premier League ?? It has everything to do with it.

I can say that the £165m debt has nothing to do with our current financial problems because it doesn't actually exist. Mr Davies has written it off.

 

[Easy 10]

Exactly. And this was pointed out 5 years ago....

http://swissramble.blogspot.co.uk/2010/11/why-bolton-have-so-much-debt.html

Always an interesting read on there.

Boltons wages to turnover was running at 86% in 2009. I wonder what that had risen to by the time they went down in 2012.

 

[Easy 10]

I can say that the £165m debt has nothing to do with our current financial problems because it doesn't actually exist. Mr Davies has written it off.

And you don't think that writing off his £165m wasn't a significant factor in determining exactly why Mr Davies is no longer able to, or prepared, to fund Bolton Wanderers any longer, hence the current crisis ?

Looks very much to me like he's no longer prepared to throw good money after bad.

 

[Bolton va va]

And you don't think that writing off his £165m wasn't a significant factor in determining exactly why Mr Davies is no longer able to, or prepared, to fund Bolton Wanderers any longer, hence the current crisis ?

Looks very much to me like he's no longer prepared to throw good money after bad.

Mr Davies was never in the same financial league as most PL club owners & the club was up for sale even when we were in the PL, but there were no takers because like all clubs our size ,we were loss making & Mr Davies covered the losses as a fan knowing that he was never getting the money back. (even though PL riches are even greater now, i doubt if many/any clubs are making a profit.)

Mr Davies hasn't pulled out because we were relegated or because of the written off debt....it was always only a matter of time. Nobody half sensible invests in a football club to make money.

 

[Easy 10]

Mr Davies was never in the same financial league as most PL club owners & the club was up for sale even when we were in the PL, but there were no takers because like all clubs our size ,we were loss making & Mr Davies covered the losses as a fan knowing that he was never getting the money back. (even though PL riches are even greater now, i doubt if many/any clubs are making a profit.)

Mr Davies hasn't pulled out because we were relegated or because of the written off debt....it was always only a matter of time. Nobody half sensible invests in a football club to make money.

And nobody half sensible puts the future of their club in jeopardy by racking up unsustainable debts through pouring money almost exclusively into players and agents pockets. But then I guess that was Eddie's heart ruling his wallet.

Still don't see where I've got it wrong.

 

[severnside gull]

You clearly did not know Mr Gartside, but don't let that stop you spouting ignorant shite about a man who has just died.

Thanks to the great majority who have commented with respect & class. Mr Gartside was one of our own who , with Mr Davies, took Bolton to heights we had previously only dreamed of..., RIP Phil & thankyou.

Out of respect I won't go on a Bolton forum to express my views but yes, I actually met him on a number of occasions in club boardrooms and on that basis you'll forgive me if I make my own mind up based on personal experience.

Gartside, in my experience from talking to him one-to-one (or rather being talked at by him) was an unpleasant bully who disregarded and disrespected anyone's interest but his own. If your experience was better then good luck

 

[Mr Putdown]

And nobody half sensible puts the future of their club in jeopardy by racking up unsustainable debts through pouring money almost exclusively into players and agents pockets. But then I guess that was Eddie's heart ruling his wallet.

Still don't see where I've got it wrong.

I just don't get how you can post that and seemingly ignore the similarity between the way Bolton were funded and the way Brighton currently are?

 

[cjd]

I just don't get how you can post that and seemingly ignore the similarity between the way Bolton were funded and the way Brighton currently are?

What a shocking post for Palace supporter to try and provoke an argument between supporters on a thread like this.

Classless.

 

[Mr Putdown]

What a shocking post for Palace supporter to try and provoke an argument between supporters on a thread like this.

Classless.

I'm not trying to provoke anything.

All I did was politely respond to a post with a genuine query.

It was polite, reasonable and certainly not shocking or classless.

Unlike your attempt to score petty points simply because, I support a different team which you happen to dislike, which really is classless, especially on a thread such as this.

 

[sparkie]

The best place for a binfest about finances is another thread.