Bolton £163 million in debt (!)

[Kalimantan Gull]

Bolton's £163m debt is an exciting headline figure, but it's a bit misleading when nearly all of the debt is to our owner -& Wanderers' fan - Eddie Davies. Through some accounting smoke & mirrors, his own companies owe the money to his other companies..... not to the tax or other clubs or anything like that .We don't pay interest on it & Eddie isn't going to call the debt in & put BWFC into administration, & we even own our own ground, training facilities, hotel, etc ,etc,

By next December we we might even comply with the FFP by getting rid of the last players on prem. wages in the summer....apparently it's calculated on year on year accounts, & not on existing debt. Of course we're having to cut right back, especially on wages, & can forget promotion for now, but I doubt that we're worse off than Blackburn or Wolves who came down with us !!

It looks like any medium sized club without a hugely wealthy (overseas ? ) backer will struggle to last a few seasons in the premier league without racking up big debts. The alternative might be to go up without spending much, probably only last one season & bank the money...the Blackpool approach & maybe Palace this season !

Oh well that makes more sense then. I guess the same journo could write the same story about Brighton saying we are over 100m in debt, when of course that is owed to our owner, interest free and not about to be called in either

 

[Couldn't Be Hyypia]

Oh well that makes more sense then. I guess the same journo could write the same story about Brighton saying we are over 100m in debt, when of course that is owed to our owner, interest free and not about to be called in either

Exactly. That's the point I made earlier. It's still debt but from as secure a source as it can be.

 

[gordonchas]

Bolton's £163m debt is an exciting headline figure, but it's a bit misleading when nearly all of the debt is to our owner -& Wanderers' fan - Eddie Davies. Through some accounting smoke & mirrors, his own companies owe the money to his other companies..... not to the tax or other clubs or anything like that .We don't pay interest on it & Eddie isn't going to call the debt in & put BWFC into administration, & we even own our own ground, training facilities, hotel, etc ,etc,

By next December we we might even comply with the FFP by getting rid of the last players on prem. wages in the summer....apparently it's calculated on year on year accounts, & not on existing debt. Of course we're having to cut right back, especially on wages, & can forget promotion for now, but I doubt that we're worse off than Blackburn or Wolves who came down with us !!

It looks like any medium sized club without a hugely wealthy (overseas ? ) backer will struggle to last a few seasons in the premier league without racking up big debts. The alternative might be to go up without spending much, probably only last one season & bank the money...the Blackpool approach & maybe Palace this season !

I accept that your club is in no immediate danger, however that's a very sunny reading of the situation you've come up with. Firstly, your club is making real losses on a massive scale. Even though I imagine that all possible provisions have been thrown into this (last) year's accounts to make future results look better, your club has reported losses of well over 100 million in the last five years. "Accounting smoke & mirrors" doesn't alter the fact that those losses are real and have been escalating.

Eddie Davies may have waived interest payments for now, but in the past some quite large sums have been charged in interest and fees. It's only practical for him to waive those interest payments for now, because if he didn't then your interest payments next year alone would be £8 million against your turnover of £28m. Although he owns nearly all the shares his investment remains in the form of loans, not capital, and those loans are secured on the club's assets.

The very last sentence of your post is completely right, unfortunately hardly anyone will have the balls to do it. In the meantime clubs will continue to strive to gain access to a league awash with cash, only to end drowning in a sea of debt.

 

[Gwylan]

Bolton's £163m debt is an exciting headline figure, but it's a bit misleading when nearly all of the debt is to our owner -& Wanderers' fan - Eddie Davies. Through some accounting smoke & mirrors, his own companies owe the money to his other companies..... not to the tax or other clubs or anything like that .We don't pay interest on it & Eddie isn't going to call the debt in & put BWFC into administration, & we even own our own ground, training facilities, hotel ...

There's a piece about Bolton in today's Grauny which says that the Bolton's problem is exacerbated by the fact that, unlike other owners, Davies does charge interest on the debt

 

[Gwylan]

Bolton's £163m debt is an exciting headline figure, but it's a bit misleading when nearly all of the debt is to our owner -& Wanderers' fan - Eddie Davies. Through some accounting smoke & mirrors, his own companies owe the money to his other companies..... not to the tax or other clubs or anything like that .We don't pay interest on it & Eddie isn't going to call the debt in & put BWFC into administration, & we even own our own ground, training facilities, hotel ...

There's a piece about Bolton in today's Grauny which says that the Bolton's problem is exacerbated by the fact that, unlike other owners, Davies does charge interest on the debt

 

[Notters]

Oh well that makes more sense then. I guess the same journo could write the same story about Brighton saying we are over 100m in debt, when of course that is owed to our owner, interest free and not about to be called in either

It depends what the debt is for though. Ours is from infrastructure investment and does not count towards FFP.

 

[Bolton va va]

There's a piece about Bolton in today's Grauny which says that the Bolton's problem is exacerbated by the fact that, unlike other owners, Davies does charge interest on the debt

They are wrong...


"Wanderers have acknowledged the massive financial debt now owed to owner Eddie Davies' Moonshift Investment Ltd, which stands at £151m, but have pointed out that the interest on money owed has been reduced to nothing. "

 

[Barrel of Fun]

They are wrong...


"Wanderers have acknowledged the massive financial debt now owed to owner Eddie Davies' Moonshift Investment Ltd, which stands at £151m, but have pointed out that the interest on money owed has been reduced to nothing. "

Apparently he stopped charging interest in July. When did he take over?

 

[gordonchas]

They are wrong...


"Wanderers have acknowledged the massive financial debt now owed to owner Eddie Davies' Moonshift Investment Ltd, which stands at £151m, but have pointed out that the interest on money owed has been reduced to nothing. "

Quite, as I pointed out above it makes no sense for him to charge interest for now, it only increases the debt and would it make even more unlikely that Bolton would have any hope of meeting their FFP requirements.

You might like to read these comments on another blog from Bolton fans:

"As Gartside suggested there are a number of players that the club were unable to offload that are coming to the end of their contracts. The investment in the previously mentioned facilities will also return profits in the long term."

"with staff going out of contract at the end of the season this will be another reduction in wages so the future is looking up"

"I would also be surprised if the wage bill wasn't significantly reduced as a result of players being out of contract, no more payments for management restructure and player sales.

"even with all of this, my guess is that Bolton will still make a loss, albeit smaller"

"I am very optimistic about the clubs future financially"

All very optimistic aren't they? Yet these were comments made exactly three years ago (yes, just three years ago) on the Swiss Ramble blog when Bolton were 5th in the Premier League and the club's debt stood "only" at a "terrible" £93 million.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

What happens to the debt if the company, in this case Moonshift, goes bankrupt? Would that leave Bolton's assets up for grabs or are they somehow protected?

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

I note that the hotel at the stadium which was a joint venture with DeVere is now wholly owned by the club.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I asked Paul Barber about relegation clauses at a Q&A session. He said players wouldn't sign contracts if they were included. That's the reason that parachute payments were allowed.

So, if we get promotion we pay average players even more money and aim to finish higher than 17th. I do wonder what the point of it is at times. What is the gain?

 

[El Presidente]

Under FFP clubs have to lodge their accounts with the FL by 31 December. I wonder how long it will take for the Albion to send them to Companies House for public scrutiny?

 

[El Presidente]

So, if we get promotion we pay average players even more money and aim to finish higher than 17th. I do wonder what the point of it is at times. What is the gain?

I wonder what and how much the 1901 menu will be if we get to "to the promised land"?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I wonder what and how much the 1901 menu will be if we get to "to the promised land"?

Ha ha. I don't know but I'm sure we know who will be the first to post it! Happy new year.

 

[El Presidente]

Ha ha. I don't know but I'm sure we know who will be the first to post it! Happy new year.

And you HT!

I always scour Twitter for #1901Menu during home games!